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Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

UPDATED: Serious Time Machine bug on Mountain Lion

This is continued and summarized from a previous thread, Serious Time Machine bug on Mountain Lion, which has grown rather large and unwieldy (and which I marked Solved in error). There are a few other threads that touch on it as well.

Some of us have seen a few cases of a pretty nasty problem with Time Machine backups on Mountain Lion. It doesn't seem to affect a lot of users, but those who have it, don't know it. It seems to have started at different times for different users, some as long ago as December, 2012.

The backups cannot not be used to do a full system restore from recent backups -- they don't appear on the selection screen that shows only "complete" backups. Plus, they're not recognized as backups by Setup Assistant or Migration Assistant. They don't appear on the Select the Source or Select Your System windows at all. But your user data is fine via the Time Machine browser (the "Star Wars" display).

What's happening is, the top-level Applications, Library, System and (hidden) private folders are being excluded by some process (not the user, and the exclusions do not appear on the Time Machine Preferences window). But all backups complete normally, and Verify Backups from the Time Machine menubar on network backups, and Verify Disk or Repair Disk via Disk Utility, don't show a problem (because what's there is intact; those processes can't tell that what's missing isn't supposed to be missing.)

In addition, we've seen a few threads where the problem is intermittent -- backups are unexpectedly large, sometimes often, sometimes less so, intermittently. In those cases, the folders are backed up, then skipped, then backed-up again, then skipped, etc. Since they appear to be "new" when backed-up again, they're backed-up in full, making backups of 15 GB or more.

See #D10 in Time Machine - Troubleshooting for an easy way to tell if you're affected, and a fix.

However, as we have no clue as to the cause yet, we need to be sure Apple knows about this, in detail, while it's happening, so I'm asking for some folks who are having these problems, and are fairly comfortable with the Finder at least, and following directions to do other things you may not be so familiar with, to help us collect information and contact Apple before running the fix in the link above (as that will destroy some of the evidence).

We're especially interested in folks who are covered by AppleCare, as you can call them for free and get some fairly quick attention. We can supply some "ammunition" for when you call them (since I haven't had this problem, and don't know how to reproduce it, I can't report it myself).

If you're having this problem and just want to run the fix, by all means do so (and check it periodically), but please don't post back with just a "me, too" post, unless you have something significant to add -- this thread may get long and those won't really help.

But if you're having a different problem, please do not respond to this thread. Start a new one, instead. If you're not sure how to do that, please go to the main Apple Support Communities page; some Tutorials are listed at the right. They'll show you how to get started.

Posted on Jun 24, 2013 6:48 AM

171 replies

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 6, 2013 1:20 PM in response to nottingham67

nottingham67 wrote:

. . .Three hours and three Genius Bar guys later, they noticed that none of my applications or my library had been backed up for months.

Not on any backup at all, from your description, right?

This morning, I called Apple Support again and spoke to two different people. I gave them the URLs to these threads, but then AT&T decided to drop my call. Apple didn't call back

Did they give you a Case Number? Whether they did or not, call them back. Be firm, but polite.

Would you mind sending it to me, at the address on my Contact page?

I called the Apple Store and spoke to one of the Genius Bar guys from yesterday. I gave him the URLs, as well, and was told that he'd escalate it to an engineer. I already knew this before he stated it, but if the information isn't on the backup, there's no way to magically recover it. I still wanted it escalated, which will take anywhere from 4–6 days to hear back from the engineer. He said he'd call me as soon as he could.

Good, and surprising. Usually, they don't know much beyond the basics, but if he's escalating it, great. We need to get as many "hooks" into them as possible.

This does look like a very difficult one for them to identify, much less track down, since none of us has found a way to replicate it. Searching through code, trying to imagine what might fo wrong at some point or other, can be an exercise in futility.

Someone please tell me "everything will be okay." All I know at this point is I'm hitting a bar tonight.

I'd tell you that, but you wouldn't believe it. 😉

It's a bit late now, but once you get your system pieced back together, take a look at Time Machine - Frequently Asked Question #27.

Sep 6, 2013 2:44 PM in response to nottingham67

I'm also too late with only a little... While waiting for your machine to work normally again, RUN (do not walk) to a good, reliable site (on the web or even the Apple Store) and get an additional external drive and a copy of SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner. The latter is not free and the Apple Store will be the most expensive place to buy a drive. The point is, especially for any one earning a living with any computer, to have at least two types of backups. TM works fine 99+ percent of the time, but that's not up to Apple's standard, thus this extremely long thread. But the two apps I mentioned can be used to make a bootable copy of your whole drive, preferably daily! What this means is that you can keep working even if your internal drive breaks. Of course, it won't help if your mother board is fried, but the drive usually fails more often than the board. That may have been the problem during your first visit, anyway.

Secondly, I think there is an Applesctipt (in this thread or at Pondi's site) that will run and help notify you if this problem re-occurs. You can also simply look at the System, Applicatons, Library, etc. folders on the latest TM backup to verify that those folders are not empty.

Hope you're up and working in as little lost time as possible!

Personaly, I've had very good experiences with Other World Computing (owc.com) drive enclosures and both Western Digital and Segate drives. Buying these things seperatley and you make your own external drive with the best quality hardware and need nothing more than a screwdriver! 🙂 Buying a 'brand name' box doesn't guarantee any particular quality of drive in the box. 😟

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 6, 2013 2:54 PM in response to xairbusdriver

xairbusdriver wrote:

. . .

What this means is that you can keep working even if your internal drive breaks.

And, they won't skip those folders!

Secondly, I think there is an Applesctipt (in this thread or at Pondi's site)

Yup. 🙂 Link in blue box at #D10 of Time Machine - Troubleshooting.

Sep 6, 2013 3:14 PM in response to xairbusdriver

Thanks for the information. Oddly (or sadly), I purchased CarbonCopyCloner after the first logic board died, but, of course, I never got around to setting it up. But, from what I think you said, it wouldn't have helped at that point anyway, right? (Or did I misinterpret that?)

I'm embarrassed to say this, especially since I DO make a living using my Mac, but my knowledge in creating a smart and efficient backup system is definitely lacking. I know about bootable drives, but I've never created one. I'll need a little handholding to comprehend all things backup. I actually have two Western Digital external drives that back up everything, but they're not bootable. My eyes start to glaze over whenever I hear talk about those things, but I've learned my lesson.

Also, I've heard about CrashPlan and Carbonite cloud backup services. Do you guys think using one of those would help if I ever, God forbid, run into this same problem again?

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 6, 2013 3:28 PM in response to nottingham67

nottingham67 wrote:

Thanks for the information. Oddly (or sadly), I purchased CarbonCopyCloner after the first logic board died, but, of course, I never got around to setting it up. But, from what I think you said, it wouldn't have helped at that point anyway, right?

Please put down any blunt instruments or sharp objects before reading further. 😉

Yes, that would have helped enormously. You could have cloned it back to the Mac, then (assuming that was earlier than your latest TM backup), recovered the latest home folder from your latest backup. You might have lost some recent apps, etc., but not much.

I know about bootable drives, but I've never created one. I'll need a little handholding to comprehend all things backup. I actually have two Western Digital external drives that back up everything, but they're not bootable.

They do have some that aren't bootable. See List of Mac-bootable WD external drives.

My eyes start to glaze over whenever I hear talk about those things, but I've learned my lesson.

You might also want to seeTime Machine vs. Clones and Archives for an overview of the different types of backup apps, the advantages and disadvantages of each, and some recommendations.

Also, I've heard about CrashPlan and Carbonite cloud backup services. Do you guys think using one of those would help if I ever, God forbid, run into this same problem again?

For a relatively-small amount of data, that might be workable. But if you have a big system, both backups and restores will take a very long time.

Sep 6, 2013 3:39 PM in response to Pondini

Great, Pondini. Kick a man when he and his Mac are down. ;)

Also, just so you guys don't think I'm too much of idiot, I only started freelancing a few months ago. So, although the need for a good backup system has always been important, it just hasn't been extremely important until recently. You know, right when I need it the most.

Sep 6, 2013 3:40 PM in response to nottingham67

nottingham67 wrote:

Also, I've heard about CrashPlan and Carbonite cloud backup services. Do you guys think using one of those would help if I ever, God forbid, run into this same problem again?

Not familiar with the details of those, but most cloud-based services are useless for complete system backups - they usually throttle your upload speed, so it takes forever to copy 100s of gigs of data up to them. And then you install a new version of an app, or an OS update, and you're back into forever land. And, of course, if your broadband is capped, you might blow your monthly data budget. A local drive is the best place for system images - and yes, taking a snapshot with a non-Apple utility is a good belt & braces approach.

Cloud is good for storing the truly irreplaceable stuff: your personal data. Documents, photos, spreadsheets, etc. - those are things you really need an off-site copy of. You can rebuild your system & reinstall apps, but you can't rebuild lost data files. The good news for you is that all your user data is backed up - it's a bit of a faff to get at it, but you can mount the backup sparsebundle (if it's encrypted, you'll need the key) and then open the latest backup and copy stuff out from it.

Sep 6, 2013 7:19 PM in response to nottingham67

Wait! Did you say what I think you said?!

...I actually have two Western Digital external drives that back up everything, but they're not bootable...

I hope you aren't saying that those backups are just your work, as important as they certainly are, and not your apps/System files.

But this question is actually Off-Topic and it might be best to start a new thread if you actually have files that could restore most of your data.

Sep 7, 2013 10:44 AM in response to xairbusdriver

Yes, I have two WDs, and I think I know where you're going with this. I sorta figured this out last night. I haven't touched anything after getting my MBP back, so it's factory-fresh for the most part. I left this part out in my previous threads, so everyone please tell me it WAS a vital piece of info that you could've used to help me.

On my WDs, I have years worth of backups: 2011, 2012 and 2013. Every year, I buy a new external drive and create a new, complete Time Machine backup. Of course, most of those files are outdated (which is why I didn't mention it), but I could probably go back and pinpoint the exact date that Time Machine started acting up. I do remember having trouble with it at one point. If I remember correctly, it started doing what a lot of you experienced: it started creating HUGE backups and giving me error messages that my hard drive didn't have enough space to complete them. (December 2012, maybe?) I got frustrated with it, though, and started working without backing up anything. I was in the middle of a major deadline. I can't remember the day that Mountain Lion was released or its subsequent updates, but I can go back and check and report what I find to you guys. I'll have to that a little later today. After that, maybe someone could give me instructions on how to best recover/restore the data that it last completely backed up.

I was in a funk yesterday, so I apologize for omitting this.

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 7, 2013 11:40 AM in response to nottingham67

nottingham67 wrote:

. . .

I can go back and check and report what I find to you guys. I'll have to that a little later today. After that, maybe someone could give me instructions on how to best recover/restore the data that it last completely backed up.

I don't know how much of your Applications and Library folders you've already put together, so not sure it's worth it, but here's what you can do:

• Full system restore from the most recent "complete" backup. That gets your apps & support files as of that date.

• Recover the home folder(s) from the most recent backup.

Instructions are on my site. See #D10 inTime Machine - Troubleshooting, first link in the tan box.

Király

Level 6

10,017 points

Sep 18, 2013 6:44 AM in response to Pondini

Hi Pondini

I am having the same exact problem with TM, while running a different OS X version. The fixes aren't working. I'm discovering some interesting and bizarre things. If you want more details, you know where we can talk more about it. Cheers.

ncprius2

Level 1

14 points

Oct 8, 2013 10:07 AM in response to Pondini

Just a few friendly suggestions for your TM website:

(1.) May want to mention that the two zip files require tmutil which is not in 10.6 or earlier.

At http://pondini.org/TM/D10d.html these zip files contain:

Background check for Time Machine skipping folders.app

Check for Time Machine skipping folders.app

In general, especially with 10.9 due any day now, it may be good to be specific about what osx and backupd versions your advice applies to, at least when it may not apply to newest (10.9) or oldest (10.6).

(2.) Why not just open-source these 2 apps? And/or provide command-line/shell-script equivalents?

(I'll send to website email as well).

R C-R

Level 6

17,782 points

Oct 8, 2013 6:27 PM in response to ncprius2

I regret to inform everyone following this discussion that James Pond, known in these forums as Pondini, has died. His obituary can be found here.

I never met him in person but like so many others his loss has affected me deeply.

San Lewy

Level 1

50 points

Oct 8, 2013 10:25 PM in response to R C-R

How sad to hear of the passing of James Pond.

miakt

Level 1

0 points

Oct 8, 2013 11:06 PM in response to R C-R

Wow. I have an e-mail subscription to this topic and have been following the ongoing detective story of the mysterious Time Machine bug, and Pondini's heroic efforts to solve it and help every poor lost soul who wanders in here. You don't often encounter people with that level of knowledge and patience in these types of forums. What a sad and surprising twist this is. May he rest in peace.

UPDATED: Serious Time Machine bug on Mountain Lion