THIS is why there is no upgrade price for Logic Pro X

Robin pardon me, isn't a nice way to express your opinion. The users you call KIDS are just people that paid for a product. And after 2 months they see that their product is obsolete.

Even if I do spend thousand of pound for my studio I tend to be very careful with money value.

I might not complain as them but I can understand their point.

thanks all for the chat 🙂

alek_corona wrote:

Robin pardon me, isn't a nice way to express your opinion. The users you call KIDS are just people that paid for a product. And after 2 months they see that their product is obsolete.

But it's not obsolete... There's still highly functional studios using Logic 7 on dual CPU Mac G5's.

That's exactly the type of attitude I was talking about, as if someone can't compose or create music unless it's the latest (and often bug infested) piece of software.

The simple solution is to call Apple and see if they're willing to work something out.

The thing I noticed was dozens of posts complaining about upgrade prices or lack thereof, and not one post as to Logic-10's functionality. I find that indicitive of the new user base where having the latest and greatest is more important than using whatever version you currently have.

Seems that the relevant phrase here is "no good deed goes unpunished".

Robin Johnson wrote:

Pancenter wrote:

The price whining is a natural development from Apple removing the copy protection, reducing the price and promoting Logic as and upgrade to Garageband. You now have a whole new group of users, many who have never used a DAW and have little respect for the development of this software through the years or the things we used to do as engineers/musicians.... To amateurs the $199 upgrade price is ridiculously expensive to the "entitled" attitudes prevalent today. The fact that Apple isn't offering this upgrade at $50 is reason for storming the gates.

A good point and I agree with you. However just because people have come to Logic later in its - far more accessible, and by Christ aren't they lucky? - lifetime, there is no reason to grizzle like a bunch of spoiled children. They've had Logic effectively handed to them on a plate... but they want the plate as well. Then they'll want the hand that proffers the plate and so on!

Dave Woof wrote:

But no-one did buy Logic for $1000 2 months ago, so that's something of a moot point! ;-)

That was exactly my reaction to alek-corona's remarkably irrelevant point, Dave!

And I would add to my reply that many of us DID buy Logic when it cost far more than $200/£139, plus all the upgrades over the years... but we're not the ones grizzling that there's no upgrade price! It's the kids who, as Pancenter says, have grown up with a sense of entitlement, who take things for granted and that everything should be doled out without having to put a decent amount of work or investment in.

It would be really interesting to look at the demographics, to see the age of those complaining and if they're the ones who demand the latest Apple gizmo the day it's released ... ;-)

Robin, I agree with your main points.

Here's a copy of something I mentioned in another thread which is just my perspective on a slightly different point:

Dave Woof wrote:

Everyone's a winner!

Actually no.

I don't have any issue with the lack of an upgrade path, but I think it is very poor that old versions are removed without warning - if they are separate products you've paid for each should still be available to download and install in parallel. I know it's in the T&Cs that things can be removed but I don't think that provides a good cutomer experience for those who are caught out - same whether it's a $1 or $200 app.

I always keep backups of iOS and Mac AppStore downloads so at least have the app, but will core and additional content delivered by download separately remain available from within the app indefinitely?

Core content certainly seems to be available still, but not sure about the additional stuff yet.

As the downloaded pkg files that have the content get wiped on installation it's not straightforward for the average user to back them up.

AC

The cost of the new version should be a drop in the ocean which will be recouped very quickly for a professional user.

The dramatic original price reduction for the MAS version will however have brought many many home/hobbyist/amateur users into the fold as well - I have no issue with people having to pay for Logic Pro X, my annoyance personally as a light home user is the generic Mac/iOS AppStore problem that perfectly functional purchased old software versions are removed without any warning whatsoever - when Apple are pushing cloud services generally and the ability to redownload content from iTunes etc many people these days just assume stuff will be available indefinitely when it isn't.

I honestly can't see why old versions cannot be made available indefinitely or maybe a 30-90 day grace period to allow users to ensure they have adequate backup copies.

AC

And to clarify, we've now established that the old version IS still avaialble, as is all the additional content, so plenty of time to create those local backups if needs be.

"And there was much rejoicing!"

Dave Woof wrote:

And to clarify, we've now established that the old version IS still avaialble, as is all the additional content, so plenty of time to create those local backups if needs be.

"And there was much rejoicing!"

😁

It is so important to make backup copies of iOS or Mac AppStore apps - new hardware requirements often render current versions of software unusable on older devices or OS/iOS versions, and with iOS in particular apps do not necessarily form part of a backup so if you were on an older (no longer available) version and can't use the current one you're stuck if you can't restore - again I've never understood why Apple cannot allow the newest compatible version to be downloaded on older hardware but here you go eg iPad won't handle version 6 but is ok with version 5, so why not allow older iPad to download version 5 if needed....

Maybe those so called "kids" are smart enough not to pay ridicolous prices for a piece of software. Users who justify the high price with years of developing/coding, man hours etc. are stuck in time. Should I bring up console prices? Or games? Cost millions to develop yet those companys make lots of profit of those games which retail at 60 bucks. Would you buy a game if it was 199$?

The price for software is generally based around the sales levels that are expected in conjunction with an amortisation of the development costs across those sales. So, if you have software for sale with a smaller potential user base, you'll have to charge more for it. If you widen the user base, you can start to charge less, as Apple have in this instance (and indeed with all their pro software lineup).

Pro Tools hasn't gone onto that business model, so remains expensive. Neither model is right or wrong, just a different approach to making your money.

For us, being Logic users, we benefit from a cheaper model. Pro Tools users don't, but I'm sure they feel they reap benefits in other ways which validates the extra cost.

However, you can't really compare this to games, as the market for those is so much larger (by orders of magnitude), so they can be sold for a lower price.

I've bought every version of Logic since V5.

More than happy to pay the very reasonable £139 price for V10, despite having a V9 license. In contrast, I also use ProTools HDX and the UPGRADE price from V10 to v11 is almost £500. Really people, this is a bargain and given the uniquely low price of entry there is infinite justification for Apple not offering an upgrade deal.

I'm sure I would feel just the same as the rest of you but I'm just a bit miffed at having to pay all over again for something I thought I'd bought the most up-to-date version of just 3 weeks ago. I've hardly dipped my toe in this one.

If you only bought it 3 weeks ago, contact Apple, and you should get a full refund.

CoinOP1 wrote:

Maybe those so called "kids" are smart enough not to pay ridicolous prices for a piece of software.

Or maybe they're small minded, inexperienced or not too bright.

Apple as a huge corpororation can afford to lower the price... because their hardware (The Mac) is the new software key, (dongle) for Logic. It's a win-win for Apple as the software sells the hardware.

Apple did not program Logic, it was already mature, professional software before Apple purchased the company. To a professional making his living off music/composing/engineering the $999 price that a small compnany like eMagic charged was money well spent as -professional- support was included.

Stevensl wrote:

I'm sure I would feel just the same as the rest of you but I'm just a bit miffed at having to pay all over again for something I thought I'd bought the most up-to-date version of just 3 weeks ago. I've hardly dipped my toe in this one.

Before the miffage overcomes you, have you called Apple and explained the situation, several recent purchasers have already been refunded their Logic 9 price and then purchased Logic-x.

CoinOP1 wrote:

Maybe those so called "kids" are smart enough not to pay ridicolous prices for a piece of software. Users who justify the high price with years of developing/coding, man hours etc. are stuck in time. Should I bring up console prices? Or games? Cost millions to develop yet those companys make lots of profit of those games which retail at 60 bucks. Would you buy a game if it was 199$?

It's a comparative bargain for what it does, same applies to FCP X, Aperture and most of iLife/iWork stuff as well as the competitive OS upgrade prices these days.

The AppStore model is the issue for me - existing purchases should remain available indefinitely unless there are specific licensing issues that prevent this - if I don't use Logic Pro 9 enough as a hobbyist or don't make money with it as a pro I don't need to upgrade to X for the sake of it and waste money - I might choose to pay and get the new version, but I'd still like the old one I paid for to be available in the MAS for redownload without jumping hoops to make backups.

The problem with Apple really is that the hardware/software refresh cycles almost turn ownership into a rental/leasing arrangement where you're expected to purchase everything again after 2-3 years at most in order to keep up to date - it may actually be quite efficient if you make money from the hardware/software combination but is increasingly prohibitive for the casual user.

AC