THIS is why there is no upgrade price for Logic Pro X

To sum up this discussion...

You either Buy Into Apple's way of doing business or you don't.

1. Buy Into: To agree with, or accept as valid.

My only comment, If Apple is going to call software "Professional" they should.

1. Communicate with users directly.

2. Give refunds/exchanges if the previous version of Logic is purchased within a certain time frame before the release of a new version. And/or let users know a new version is immanent.

3. Offer better ground level support and not depend on users as their main support staff. Apples support staff often tells customers to come here for answers. ??

4. If requested, offer the software on some other medium besides download. (optical media, small USB hard drive.) A slight price increase would be expected.

I know none of the above will happen but it's simply common courtesy to users who purchase software for professional use. Just because the software is cheap doesn't mean purchasers should be shorted quality support or treated unfairly. (users who purchased L9 days, weeks, even a month or two before the LX release were not treated fairly, imho.)

Uhh... And/or let users know a new version is imminent.

Pancenter,

I don't think any reasonable person would argue with any of your points....I certainly don't! (But then Im not always considered reasonable either!)

However, the point about anyone who bought LP9 30 days or less prior to LPX being released being given a refund, given how it was 'sprung' on people.. while very agreeable to you and me... has an unfortunate consequence.given how the App store works...

If they did it for LPX then they would have to do the same for all other Apps on the App store and that isn't really feasible given that it would mean retrieving money back from Devs (as Apple does pay pretty promptly...) for Apps they had already sold and paid the Devs for.. when refunds were issued..or... lengthen the time between when Apps are sold and when Devs are paid.. (which i just hear the Devs all complaining about in the strongest terms!)

Im not saying it isn't possible to work out some kind of system but i can see how legally tricky that might be and how they might be opening a whole can of worms in the process.

The other issue with such refunds is... as you know, people would still ***** and complain if they bought Logic 31 days prior to release.. you simply cannot please all of the people, all of the time... One solution is, logically, to announce such releases ahead of time... but then that's never been Apple's way... or so I used to think until i realized they do announce OS X paid for upgrades ahead of time... so it's not unheard of for them to do so.

Finally, while, as I said at the beginning, I don't think anyone with half a brain would argue with any of your points.... what 'gets my goat' are the people who;

A) Think they deserve some form of entitlement if they simply 'yell and scream' loud enough...

B) Think they are entitled to a refund even though they bought LP9 3 months, 6 months or in one case, almost a year prior to LPX's release...

C) Threaten, in this forum. to switch to another DAW.... as if anyone here could care if they did or did not!

D) Complain about the current price of LPX and the fact there isn't an upgrade price. Typically these are also the people who didn't pay $1000 for LP in the first place.... and so have no sense of value... based on past experience.

Cheers!

The Art Of Sound wrote:

Pancenter,

I don't think any reasonable person would argue with any of your points....I certainly don't! (But then Im not always considered reasonable either!)

However, the point about anyone who bought LP9 30 days or less prior to LPX being released being given a refund, given how it was 'sprung' on people.. while very agreeable to you and me... has an unfortunate consequence.given how the App store works...

Agreed with most everything you wrote... my point is, Professional Applications should not be in the app store with $3 apps in the first place. This is as much for Apple's convenience, as it is the users. Which is one of my main gripes about the company and the way it does business now. Customer's good will towards Apple has already seen a major shift to the negative in comparison to what it was before the release of the iPhone. Of course Pro Apps are a proverbial drop in the bucket compared the phone/tablet hardware but that doesn't mean the software and support can be pro in name only. Apple could easily set aside a section of the app store and apply an alternate set of guidelines that allowed refunds,/exchanges or posts of imminent software updates.

I know it's not going to happen, people tend to go along with "what is". Doesn't mean one is acting entitled to want a fair system though.

Pancenter wrote:

Agreed with most everything you wrote... my point is, Professional Applications should not be in the app store with $3 apps in the first place.....

I whole heartedly agree with that statement though, it might strike some of elitism possibly... but that is not my intent, nor yours I suspect...

I felt at the time, and still do.. that while a reduction in price gives access to such a DAW to a wider market... and affords more musicians , the opportunity to use a Pro Level DAW... which are all worthy goals.. the cost reduction would come at a 'price' too... and I feel we are already seeing the penalties of such an App being sold on the App Store as it somehow is perceived as having less value... becoming a Semi-Pro app for example.. simply based on its current pricing and the 'dumbed down' feature set for those coming from GB... and on top of that, Apple's lack of real support only adds to that perception..

I personally believe many, including myself.. will rue the day Logic Pro was made an app store only program in the near future if things do not change in regards to how Apple view Logic Pro and equally as important, it's Pro Users.....

Maybe Apple should have continued on with a sort of GB Pro rather than Logic Pro... almost in the same way Logic Express was marketed.. and put that on the App Store and left Logic Studio as the top of the range Pro App it is.... Logic Stdio could then be sold, as you mentioned, in a Pro App section of the App store... with different 'rules' and made availale in both download and for a price, on a physical medium or at the very least.. provide a means by which it could be downloaded and then easily stored on a physical medium.

Btw Pancenter,

Have you ever purchased the Pro App Applecare for Logic Pro?

http://www.apple.com/support/products/enterprise/video.html

If so, what did you think about the level of support provided by such?

One of my clients bought it last year and has been singing it's praises 'long and loud' to me as he claims when he had an issue that he could not obtain a resolution to, by any other means... (i.e. from me amongst other resources!) he received a very prompt response from the Dev team itself which resolved the issue completely... He said it reminded him of how things used to be back in the day when eMagic was still an independant company... and that claim has got me thinking about buying it too.

Thoughts?

The Art Of Sound wrote:

Pancenter wrote:

Agreed with most everything you wrote... my point is, Professional Applications should not be in the app store with $3 apps in the first place.....

I whole heartedly agree with that statement though, it might strike some of elitism possibly... but that is not my intent, nor yours I suspect...

I felt at the time, and still do.. that while a reduction in price gives access to such a DAW to a wider market... and affords more musicians , the opportunity to use a Pro Level DAW... which are all worthy goals.. the cost reduction would come at a 'price' too...

Sometimes am a bit of elitist when it comes to education, curiosity, hard work, do-it-yourselfism <g>....etc. Actually education comes further down the list, if you have the other three you will educate yourself.

But you're correct, I only meant pro apps being offered with games, maps, social networking & entertainment apps doesn't give one the feeling you're dealing with top tier professional software.

Plus, so many Mac users depended on the "it's easy" and "it just works" philosophy they've apparently atrophied their brains and forgotten the joy of figuring out and using a complex piece of software, not all of course but many. As the user base changes, so will the application.

The Art Of Sound wrote:

Btw Pancenter,

Have you ever purchased the Pro App Applecare for Logic Pro?

God no, that would imply I needed help! 😁

Not so sure about paying extra, although now that the program is $199 it might be well worth is for some people.

Final Cut Pro X, also available on the Appstore, was announced beforehand. So all those legal issues mentioned here are BS!

CoinOP1 wrote:

Final Cut Pro X, also available on the Appstore, was announced beforehand. So all those legal issues mentioned here are BS!

FCP7 to FCPX

There is a difference.. these were two completely different applications with everything related to FCP7 being dropped. FCP7 was an end-of-line product with no further development of it's code base. FCP7 was never sold at the FCPX price point.

L9 to L10 is still based on the same code, some additions and some of the code revamped. The Audio engine is identical from what I can tell as are most of the functions.

Besides.. the legal issues weren't about announcements they were about owning two supported versions of Logic while having paid for one.

So what you are saying is that LPX is a mere update and should be cheaper:)?

Like I said. I enjoy LPX, the money is gone!, but a little headsup would have been nice....

alohapussycat wrote:

please quote where I say that LP is the most expensive...PLEASE.

I'm not saying you said that. Pointing out that logic is the second cheapest of those eight apps (and by only ten bucks) is a response to the claim that Logic isn't a bargain.

As for your opinion that Logic is a second rate app, that's based on saying that you feel it's on par with a couple DAWS but others are "more serious". And that you feel logic is only worth $300-350 while a number of others cost $499. I'll put it another way, why did you buy Logic if you feel that other DAWs are better ones? I'm also curious what you're going to actually do - keep using Logic 9, upgrade to 10, or dump it for another DAW.

Time to get over it .....

200 USD is not much if you want to make music compared to other costs. You need a computer, soundcard, mic, instrument, speakers.

So why all this fuzz, get over it.....

People should choose the Daw that suit their workflow, Pro Tools, Cubase, ....by the way Reaper is 40 or 50 USD....

Just bought a plugin a week ago, unfilter from zynaptic USD 399..... amazing plugin by the way.