Apple Event: May 7th at 7 am PT
Looks like Logic, with all it's power is destined to become the world's most full featured app toy.. not by design but by the demands of it's soon to be, largest demographic... beginners. Nothing against beginners but when they become the core of the user base things will change, they're already changing. Logic's recent new features are playing catch up to features that have been available on other systems for a few years.
Miles Fender wrote:
- MIDI effects
These aren't new. They've been there forever in the Environment. Logic X has just added pretty UI wrappers around them. That's great - makes them much more usable and accessible. But it's superficial change.
Just Wrappers?! Have you seen how flexible the arp's are now?! It's 10x better and will be used by a huge majority of users as it's so simple to plug in to the channel. I know people that have bought expensive synthesiers because of the Arp controls available, this provides so much power to the user and the importance of workflow cannot be stressed enough when songwriting.
- Flex Pitch
Have you used Melodyne? Any pro user worth their salt already uses Melodyne for time and pitch correction. Flex Pitch is neat and convenient, but it introduces audible artifacts on every source I've tried it on. It's just not very good.
But you can still use Melodyne - so i can't see the issue?! Flex pitch is in it's initial phase right now, it will get better - But most importantly, unlike Melodyne it integrates perfectly.
Ever try the first iteration of Melodyne? Was a real pain to use. Whilst flex pitch just needs some tweaks, Melodyne has almost 15 years development behind it and alone costs more than the entire Logic suite!
- Drummer
Gimmicky. It's really just another set of Apple Loops, with little pictures of hipster drummers. There isn't much variability. Imagine how many songs are going to get created with this - all with the exact same drum track.
As a songwriter it's handy to have something to form the basis of a track to get an idea down quickly, and it's not just apple loops, it's midi data that is being created formed around your song, you can set regions to define Verses, Choruses, Bridges etc. and even use an existing track for the bass and snare drum to follow.
Because it's polished and has character, don't do it a dis-service as it's incredibly quick at getting backing drums down.
And you really should listen to the majority of music which already have the same basic rhythms, those that are creative with it will affect the sounds and cut/splice the resultant midi data. You can be as lazy, or as active with the tools provided as you see fit - For me, this is the big benefit of Logic X.
Also badly damaged is the Environment. They haven't even bothered to update it to the new UI style, which means that existing projects that made heavy use of it now look garbled, and in the worst cases have inaccessible objects off the side of the visible area.
Agreed 100% lol 🙂
Pancenter and Miles are right, of course, but the 'core' of Logic is still pro.
I read a book once called 'Crossing the chasm' wherin was explained the difficulty of advancing from a specialist product to a 'mainstream' one and how most (even, perhaps especially, very good) products don't cross to the mass market and therfore get a little stagnant without enough income to justify serious advancement, Perhaps Apple may be on the right, long term track with this. Let's hope so.
This whole 'pro' thing is silly, Logic 9 has been used to produce hits, Logic X will be used to produce hits. Even Fruity Loops has been used to create hits.
Is a MicroKorg synth 'pro' ?! I've heard people refer to them as 'toys' yet i've seen many live bands topping the charts using them. Is a song written with Garage Band any less worthy than one written with Pro Tools?
Many Modern Engineers/Producers etc. have become lazy and expect everything to be done for them all within the one suite, hence why we have to suffer with over-compressed auto-tuned garbage that get squeezed through tweaked presets.
It could be argued that Logic is the most 'professional' of all DAW's because of factors like the environment and flexibility contained within - It's a piece of software that truly benefits from proper tuition, just like the Adobe Suites and Autocad's of this world.
no, the midi effects are immediate, simple, accessible. i've been using the arp live with a synth, and note repeat with high hats. lovely.
i live by melodyne (some vocal fixes, some created harmonies), but will be easier with flexpitch. you can do this WITHIN an arrangement, easier than melodyne's seperate window.
i LOVE track stacks, using them summed...simplifies what's onscreen, great for master effects per stack...
drummer...i could care less. but the drum kit designer...nice. may replace addictive drummer for me.
overall, great stuff. seriously, a talented person (pro or not), can make great music in garageband. to my mind, LX is a leap forward from L9, and, personally, i'm already back to work...and happier than ever...
Many Modern Engineers/Producers etc. have become lazy and expect everything to be done for them all within the one suite, hence why we have to suffer with over-compressed auto-tuned garbage that get squeezed through tweaked presets.
But you just demolished your own argument. By that rationale, Logic Pro X shouldn't have included Flex Pitch, Smart Controls, or automated drummers.
It could be argued that Logic is the most 'professional' of all DAW's because of factors like the environment and flexibility contained within - It's a piece of software that truly benefits from proper tuition, just like the Adobe Suites and Autocad's of this world.
And again - Apple couldn't even be bothered to update the UI of the Environment. There's no point having all that power and flexibilty if you don't maintain it between releases.
The power that's in there is being eroded in favor of simplification, and things that are already broken as a result - such as my having two unusable channel strips on my console - are not being addressed.
then either move to another DAW, or stay with L9. what's your point exactly? no update pleases everyone. the bottom line is...what can u best make music with? for me, L9 has been great, but...am loving the new things in X.
so am back to work today, and happy with the new options, improvements.
if not for you, so it goes...
Miles anint gripey, He's just right on
1 If I change the gain of an audio region in the ARRANGE window, does LX visibly redraw the region at the new dB level ( like PT,Cubase Harrison Mix buss etc)
2. Is the main arrange bar ruler actually legible? Can I change the overall font sizes now?
3. Does LX spread the load of a CPU hungry AI eg IVORY II across all 8 cores WHILST PLAYING IN ?
4 Are tracks icons customisable?
5 Does LX still take an age ( for me nearly a minute) to load up ( scanning thru all 3rd Prty plugins EVERY TIME.
If there was a positive answer to ANY of the above I'd consider the upgrade....but alas
skijumptoes wrote:
With all things considered, Logic does everything i can think that a mix engineer would like it to. It has full mixing capabilities and plugin support - I can't see how it is any better or any worse than any DAW on the market in that respect?
Not really, routing has not been improved, the audio engine hasn't changed which means... it still doesn't have 100% PDC across all audio routing possibilites. I can't apply destructive edits directly to audio files using all of my plug-ins, bounce-in-place is not a substitute.
There is more, I'm into recording good players not creating beats or pop music, and I like to have professional audio editing tools at my disposal. Were any plugins or instruments upgraded... what about the aging EXS24.. of course we never get to hear anything from Apple so it's users are always in the dark awaiting (and guessing) what the next update might fix/include.
But as Miles Fender said, it's more the direction Logic is is/will be taking. As the demographic changes to include more beginners and new users the development focus will change.. it already has. For one, in Audio Preferences the "Advanced Tools" is disabled by default so as not to disorient Garageband upgraders.
Furthermore.. and it's been getting to me for some time.. all of the new Logic developments are geared towards selling hardware, Apple is a hardware company, it's where they make their money. All of their software is geared for one thing, selling hardware and now Logic has become part of that process. It's different than when a private company owned Logic, to stay in business the company had to be responsive to it's users, provide professional support and quick updates if errors/bugs were found and above all....be aware of what the professional community needed.
These forums provide more professional support than Apple itself does.. that should tell you something.
Jimi Marshall
Miles Fender wrote:
But you just demolished your own argument. By that rationale, Logic Pro X shouldn't have included Flex Pitch, Smart Controls, or automated drummers.
No, not at all, as a songwriter i see the Smart controls and Drummer tools as valuable workflow improvements to get an idea down as quick as possible.
Auto Tune is a real bug bear for me, i hate it, but i can see, as a song writer how Flex pitch would serve as a good tool to give some confidence in the early stages of a mix to get the feel for a song before you make the final vocal takes.
The point that i was trying to get across is that a profesional mix engineer will use Logic far differently to how a songwriter would, in the respect that they will use their favourite plugins and presets to get to that 'sound'. So, all that leaves Logic to manage is the workflow, surely? And there's been improvements there.
And again - Apple couldn't even be bothered to update the UI of the Environment. There's no point having all that power and flexibilty if you don't maintain it between releases.
I think the big problem with the environment is that if they overhauled it, users would be up in arms complaining that it's changed - I'm not sure what route they will take with it.
For me, it needs a drastic overhaul - But i don't know how many people would be sat in the same boat as me if it were to happen and they couldn't load Logic 9 projects in etc.
fisherKing wrote:
then either move to another DAW, or stay with L9. what's your point exactly?
Uhhh... maybe look at the topic subject, I started it to get others opinions on changing platforms... if it bothers you, don't read it.
sorry, meant for miles fender...
anyway, am adapting, am excited, am back to work....
Pancenter wrote:
But as Miles Fender said, it's more the direction Logic is is/will be taking. As the demographic changes to include more beginners and new users the development focus will change..
What do you use Logic for, out of curiosity?
Song writing? Mixing?
There's no point worrying about what 'might' happen dude, just enjoy what you have and embrace the improvements - More will come.
I use L9 for both
And there is NOTHING in LX that I dont already have. And the 5 things that I and MANY power users forammly submitted as feature requests have been ignored.
1 If I change the gain of an audio region in the ARRANGE window, does LX visibly redraw the region at the new dB level ( like PT,Cubase Harrison Mix buss etc)
2. Is the main arrange bar ruler actually legible? Can I change the overall font sizes now?
3. Does LX spread the load of a CPU hungry AI eg IVORY II across all 8 cores WHILST PLAYING IN ?
4 Are tracks icons customisable?
5 Does LX still take an age ( for me nearly a minute) to load up ( scanning thru all 3rd Prty plugins EVERY TIME.
fisherKing wrote:
sorry, meant for miles fender...
Okay, well I'm commenting in the same thread so I'm offering my thoughts in the same context as Pancenter.
I'm not sure why people are getting defensive. I've already said that I think Logic is great. I'm just contributing my thoughts to the topic at hand, and my thoughts are that yes: for me, as a mix engineer, I think it's time to move to another platform, for all the reasons I've stated. That's all.
I'm on a pretty stable Lion /L9 sytem
And I'm routing out to Harrison Mixbus which is sensational.
LX gives me zero reason to upgrade. And Harrison keeps me clear of AmTools.
May be time to head elsewhere..
