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GregoryBL Author

Level 1

0 points

Trying to install Windows on a partition of second internal HD

Hello,

As the title mentions, I'm trying to install Windows on my iMac 11,1 in which I've swapped out the Superdrive for a SSD.

My current setup is with 10.8 boot drive + recovery partition on the SSD and an HFS+ data partition on the second drive (HDD).

What I would like is for the SSD to contain the same partitions, but for the HDD to also include a bootable Windows partition.

Two problems with this:

1. The computer won't boot from a USB drive so I can't make a proper installer (out of the legal Windows 7 .iso I have).

The two ways around this I have read about (and tried) are to use virtualization to convince the installer it's running from a CD and not an .iso and to put the install files on a separate bootable partition of the internal drive. I managed to use Parallels 8 to install Windows 7 to a second partition on the HDD (though it couldn't make some writes due to security issues), but couldn't make it bootable. I tried making a hybrid MBR (using gdisk) on the HDD before installing Windows 7 to the partition, which made it bootable, but Windows got stuck before it loaded. This leads into problem #2.

2. The HDD doesn't know how to boot itself. My suspician is that the bootloader and/or BIOS emulation code (I don't really understand how this works) doesn't exist on the HDD. I have no idea how to fix this issue.

Any help would be appreciated in getting this to work. I'm familiar with the command line, so don't be afraid I'm going to wimp out if you ask me to use it.

iMac (27-inch Mid 2011), OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.4)

Posted on Aug 19, 2013 7:12 AM

24 replies

Aug 20, 2013 8:12 PM in response to GregoryBL

BOOTMGR is missing.

The only way I know how to fix that problem is with Windows startup repair. Sometimes even it won't fix it and you have to resort to using Bootrec manually. This thread I did a brief explain on Bootrec that I think is a bit more coherent than Microsoft's technote on the subject (which is also cited). So you're either going to need the optical drive returned to the iMac, or you're going to need another computer with successfully booting Windows, that also has Firewire, and put your iMac in Firewire target disk mode. Just make sure you identify the right disk for repair, it may not be the c: drive in this configuration.

However, it's weird that the NTFS volume "BOOTCAMP" isn't mounting read only in the Finder? Right? Even if the boot loader is busted, the file system should be valid. If the file system is valid, OS X will mount it automatically. So I wonder if there are other problems with this Windows volume.

Re your plan step #1: Yes, replacing the VBR is what bootrec.exe /FixBoot does. And bootrec.exe /FixMbr puts bootloader code in the MBR. Both may be necessary. Parallels should have access to the VBR and hence /FixBoot may work, but it doesn't have access to the MBR so I don't expect /FixMbr to work.

Also realize that Bootcamp Assistant creates a FAT32 volume, which is then reformatted NTFS by the Windows installer - at least, you're supposed to do that if you followed the Bootcamp documentation. FAT and NTFS have different requirements for booting, so if someone figured out a way to copy files over to a FAT32 volume to make it bootable, I'm uncertain that'll work if it's NTFS.

Re your plan step #3: Yes. It's in the recovery menu, option g, convert GPT to MBR and exit. I'm curious if this preserves the EFI System partition as MBR entry 1, or what. I suspect it does, and you don't need that partition. You can delete it now, or later, or not at all.

Re your plan step #4: There are lots of ways to do this. If you plan to install Windows in a new partition/volume at the start of the disk, you could have gdisk to all of this first. Just delete the partition for the EFI System partition, and the next partion (assuming you don't want any data on it, if it's for the Windows installation). Now create a new partition, gdisk should volunteer partition 1 as the default, a start sector 2048 by default, and an end sector that uses all free space before the next partition (that you want to keep). Set the partition type code to 0700. Now do the GPT to MBR conversion.

It's worth reading the documentation for the conversion, even though your case is simple and doesn't involve more than four partitions therefore an MBR with only primary partitions will be created.

GregoryBL Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 21, 2013 6:15 AM in response to Christopher Murphy

Christopher Murphy wrote:

BOOTMGR is missing.

The only way I know how to fix that problem is with Windows startup repair. Sometimes even it won't fix it and you have to resort to using Bootrec manually. This thread I did a brief explain on Bootrec that I think is a bit more coherent than Microsoft's technote on the subject (which is also cited). So you're either going to need the optical drive returned to the iMac, or you're going to need another computer with successfully booting Windows, that also has Firewire, and put your iMac in Firewire target disk mode. Just make sure you identify the right disk for repair, it may not be the c: drive in this configuration.

I don't know why I didn't think of Target Disk Mode. I'll try that out tonight. I should be able to boot to the DVD installer on the secondary computer and then use Bootrec (possibly Windows Startup Repair) on the "firewire" drive internal to the first computer.

I assume Windows doesn't like to install like this (onto an external drive); if it did I'd just keep around the install disk and the secondary computer and not have to worry about keeping an empty partition. Even if I can't install like this, unless I need to do a complete reinstall I should be able to run the important repair functions in target disk mode and avoid messing with the MBR unless it's really necessary, right?

Christopher Murphy wrote:

However, it's weird that the NTFS volume "BOOTCAMP" isn't mounting read only in the Finder? Right? Even if the boot loader is busted, the file system should be valid. If the file system is valid, OS X will mount it automatically. So I wonder if there are other problems with this Windows volume.

I can read the Bootcamp volume in finder - it just doesn't show up in the startup disk prefpane. I haven't tried writing anything, but I assume I'll be able to do so (I have a version of NTFS-3G).

Christopher Murphy wrote:

Also realize that Bootcamp Assistant creates a FAT32 volume, which is then reformatted NTFS by the Windows installer - at least, you're supposed to do that if you followed the Bootcamp documentation. FAT and NTFS have different requirements for booting, so if someone figured out a way to copy files over to a FAT32 volume to make it bootable, I'm uncertain that'll work if it's NTFS.

Good point. I'll see what happens and report back.

I'll give the steps a try tonight once I have created the installer DVD.

Thanks again (and again) for all of your help.

Aug 21, 2013 8:42 AM in response to GregoryBL

I think installing in Firewire Target disk mode is questionable because Windows installs both a CPU specific kernel and a computer specific registry; so when it reboots after the first install, the installed Windows may not boot at all because it thinks it's on a completely different computer (which it is). So it might work, but Windows isn't like OS X in that the universal boot OS is on the DVD, not what gets installed.

Be forwarned that therea are old (really old) versions of NTFS-3G floating around the internet. I haven't found anyone hosting recent OS X binaries of this. It's either compile it from source using XCode and Macports, to get it for free. Or buy NTFS rw support from Paragon or Tuxera, and it seems more people on these forums go with Paragon for whatever reason. I don't use either one so I can't comment. Tuxera's is the NTFS-3G maintainer so you'll get a current branch of that code that's at least as new if not newer than what's on Macports, which is version 2013.1.13. The one floating around I've seen is dated 2009. Not recommended.

GregoryBL Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 21, 2013 5:03 PM in response to Christopher Murphy

Ok - good to know. I'll make sure I install from the same computer only.

I currently have a trial of Tuxera's NTFS-3G as I didn't want to futz with compiling.

The Macbook Pro I was going to use to put it in target disk mode ended up having a flaky superdrive (at least for writing DVDs), so I'm trying to arrange for a different computer. I'll post here again when I have an update of substance.

GregoryBL Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 21, 2013 8:07 PM in response to GregoryBL

Managed to get an install disk made using an external DVD writer and also managed to boot to it on the secondary computer, but when I tried to go to "repair your computer" I got a dialog that said something to the effect of "This version of System Recovery Options is not compatible with the version of windows you are trying to repair. Try using a recovery disc that is compatible with this version of windows."

I assume this has something to do with not having windows installed on the secondary computer. I had a choice to boot either "Windows" or "EFI Boot" from DVD, but EFI boot didn't work at all. I assume the installer is assuming I have an EFI version of Windows installed?

I can't muck around on the secondary computer much (it's not mine), so it looks like that route is out for now. I'm going to do my best in Parallels. I may clear the Windows partition from the SSD and create that again with BCA so I don't end up with inconsistent MBR/GPT.

Aug 21, 2013 8:29 PM in response to GregoryBL

I'm not really following this, but if the computer you boot the Windows DVD on does not have Windows installed, then Windows startup repair isn't going to work.

GregoryBL Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 21, 2013 9:00 PM in response to Christopher Murphy

I had the main computer in target disk mode attached to the secondary computer - I assumed it would find the windows installation on the external (TDM) drive, but apparently it didn't make it through some check.

Is there some reason the DVD-installer shouldn't be able to see (and act upon) the Windows partition of an external drive? I know it doesn't like to install on an external drive, but I assumed the repair functions would work on it.

Aug 21, 2013 9:11 PM in response to GregoryBL

Oh, got it. So possibly there isn't a FireWire driver for the Mac hardware built into the Windows installer DVD, but presumably is part of the Boot Camp software from Apple.

So I think it's back to seeing if you can boot this Windows installer ISO in Parallels, and have it fix what it can. If it turns out it's the MBR code that's busted, there's a simple work aorund for that: syslinux comes with similar (heck maybe it's identical) code in the form of a file called mbr.bin that can be dd'd to the first sector of the disk.

GregoryBL Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 25, 2013 8:52 AM in response to Christopher Murphy

Just an update - I started over and managed to get it installed (on the SSD with a partition on the HDD, but that's fine with me).

This is how I did it.

0. As always, check backups : ).

1. Use bootcamp to make the Windows partition. This creates the hybrid MBR and also probably puts some boot code in it. I needed to trick bootcamp into letting me make a usb installer by editing the info.plist in the BootCampAssistant.App package in order for it to let me make the partition. When it restarted I just held down option and booted back into OSX, as my mac won't boot to the Windows USB installer.

2. Follow the steps in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W88ftpuFQMg) to install Windows to the Bootcamp partition using a VM in VMware. You need to use the commandline tools to create a "raw" VM that uses the partition Bootcamp created.

3. At first restart, stop the VM and boot to the bootcamp partition using rEFInd (should probably install this after step 1 if you don't already have it). Let Windows finish installing. It must mark itself as an active partition here because:

4. Now when holding option on boot you can choose the Windows partition. You can get rid of rEFInd now.

The only issue for me is I decided to wipe and repartition my HDD in order to reorder the partitions easily (and switch to just a MBR in order to allow Windows to see the data partition), but in doing so I removed the OSX recovery partition.

Thank you Christopher for all of your help. Without your guidance and incredible wealth of information I never would have been able to put this together.

Trying to install Windows on a partition of second internal HD