Level 4

3,099 points

Text point size = How many scanlines?

Broadcasters always request that legal type be "20 scanlines" or whatever. I dunno about you, but in twenty years in this business, and many years spent on Quantels, Infernos, Bosch FGS, Avid, Pastiche (crap has it really been that long...yes) I've never EVER seen an editing or graphics system that sizes type by scanlines - they all use either point size or their own internal weird size/percentage thingy. ( I think character generators use it, but I've never had to use one of those hideous 'video typewriters', thank you). And FCP is another one, using point size. Yet agency producers still sometimes turn to me and say "is that 16 scanlines" or whatever, and won't believe me when I say "sorry, no TV system in history that I've ever worked on works that way", then they get humpy and need to be administered cocktails.

So what's the solution, bar sizing type on a scope, which seems madness? Is there a ratio or system that anyone uses? I'm tired of having these people tell me I'm wrong when I'm not. And my cocktail budget isn't unlimited.

Quad G5; 3 x mini; Dual G4; AI PB; B&W G3; PB G3; S900; PB180; iPod; Shuffle,etc, Mac OS X (10.4.6)

Posted on Jun 25, 2006 9:25 AM

26 replies

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Jun 26, 2006 6:43 AM in response to Maxplanar

David H was correct, I forgot to take into account the NTSC line count - I knew it sounded too simple - but late at night after a glass of wine it seemed clear to me ....

Thinking out loud here:

In graphic design shops, they used to sell clear plastic cards with 2 fonts (a serif and a sans serif) at various sizes - something like 6pt to 36 point 2 point increments. They were/are used by graphic designers to help identify the size of text in layouts.

I you use the same calibrated monitor most of the time, all you need to do is go through Patricks test one time to verify the 20 scanline dimension then, with the text on the screen, over lay the card and mark the size letter that best represents that dimension. Once calibrated, you simply lay the card over any new text and you should be able to verify very quickly it it is adequate. Actually, all you need is one small piece of clear acetate and a sharpie to mark the relevant dimensions ...

Not a plug-in and not really practical if you use a bunch of different monitors.

x

hanumang

Level 6

9,250 points

Jun 26, 2006 6:56 AM in response to Zebulun

Well, the capital letters of 26 point Arial are approximately 19 pixels tall, with 19 pixels being a rough - ok, very rough - conversion of 20 scanlines. (As I said, it's wholly unscientific: I 'measure' them as such using LiveType's ruler and guides.)

As for a scope, Max, no, I've never had a chance to proof this on one.

Jun 26, 2006 8:45 AM in response to Studio X

Based on X's idea of a clear plastic type comparison chart, I came up with this idea - not a plugin, but fairly useable. This tiff file: typeruler.tif is a narrow graphic with 20 pixel tall strips and an alpha channel that makes them semi transparent.

The idea is that you could cut it above your sequence and use it to check your type and see if it is at least 20 pixels tall... Here's an example:

It's pictured here alongside one that has the alpha turned off so you can see it more clearly...

That's my humble offering - I'm sure it can be improved upon...

Patrick

Maxplanar Author

Level 4

3,099 points

Jun 26, 2006 9:19 AM in response to Patrick Sheffield

That's a good idea.

Now when are the sfotware manfacturers going to answer this need?

Zapcrafter

Level 4

2,115 points

Jun 26, 2006 11:45 AM in response to Patrick Sheffield

I'm so impressed by this creative approach that I hate to question it...but didn't we decide that pixels aren't equal to scanlines?

Jun 26, 2006 12:15 PM in response to Zapcrafter

didn't we decide that pixels aren't equal to scanlines?

That may be true sometimes, but as you can see from the slider test:

in this case, each row is 20 scanlines...

Patrick

Zapcrafter

Level 4

2,115 points

Jun 26, 2006 12:25 PM in response to Patrick Sheffield

Cool. (Although to be perfectly honest, I don't really understand how 480 pixels can translate into 525 scanlines like that.)

Jul 14, 2006 4:15 PM in response to Zapcrafter

Is there any way to make this easy?
10pts= _ scan lines.

PC - Don't Hate Windows XP

Jul 14, 2006 4:29 PM in response to jessehyperactive

Is there any way to make this easy?<<</div>

If only there were. The problem is that point size varies from font to font.

-DH

Jul 14, 2006 7:05 PM in response to Maxplanar

Have you seen this?

http://www.digital-heaven.co.uk/fcplugins/dh_legaltext.php

EDIT: You still need to make a conversion from pixles to scanlines, but this plug makes sizing the text in pixels pretty darned easy.

Maxplanar Author

Level 4

3,099 points

Jul 17, 2006 5:14 PM in response to Brian Conner

Bingo! Thanks Brian! You get the cookie!

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Text point size = How many scanlines?