Previous 1 15 16 17 18 19 Next 586 Replies Latest reply: Oct 4, 2014 3:34 PM by jacobfreakingharris Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • JoeBlow2444 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    If there is a bug inherent in iOS7, reinstalling doesn't change anything.

     

    If there were a bug in iOS 7, then the millions upon millions of people who installed iOS 7 would be affected. After all, one copy of software is identical to another copy.

     

    If there were a hardware issue with a tiny percentage of iPhones, then a tiny percentage of people would be affected. After all, hardware varies slightly, no two devices are perfectly identical.

  • Roy The Manc Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I'm not sure what all this is achieving if I'm honest,but I'll throw this is in the mix..Didn't lots of people suffer from loss of wifi in the early days of J.breaking ? After all isn't that hacking the baseband Firmware..Just a thought.

  • Trent Baur Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hardware can vary by more than slightly. Hardware is produced in batches, not always at the same plant. That is why car recalls affect some cars and not others. I'm sure iPhone parts work the same way.

     

    Perhaps certain batches of wifi chips have certain quality issues and the buggy firmware is over aggressively/mistakenly perceiving the chip to be non-functional when in fact it is.

     

    And before anyone jumps on me, I'm not flipflopping. I've never said there isn't a hardware-related aspect to the issue. I'm sure there is. But I still think the root cause exists in the OS/firmware. Otherwise, forcing a reset thru overheating the phone could not restore wifi functionality.

  • Roy The Manc Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The Hardware made in china and the OS developed in the states..What could possibly go wrong ?

  • pwrchord Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Heck no - mine is working b/c of the dryer!

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,215 points)

    Trent Baur wrote:

     

    TJBUSMC1973 wrote:

     

    When a restore/reinstall doesn't fix the issue, then it's hardware-related.  This is basic troubleshooting logic.

     

     

    Apple does not allow you to reinstall iOS6.

     

    http://www.extremetech.com/computing/167450-downgrading-from-ios-7-to-ios-6-why- apple-wont-let-you

     

     

    Even tech savvy people have been blocked:

     

    http://9to5mac.com/2013/09/19/buyers-remorse-heres-how-to-go-back-to-ios-6-while -you-still-can/

     

     

    When you talk about people restoring/reinstalling their software, all they are doing is putting on a fresh version of iOS7. They are not allowed to revert to "Factory Original Software", i.e. - Put the phone back to the state it was in the box, i.e. - iOS5 I believe. Believe me, if people could just restore their phone to a pre-iOS7 version, they would in droves.

     

    If there is a bug inherent in iOS7, reinstalling doesn't change anything.

     

    And before you squawk about greyed out wifi in iOS6, sure, maybe the bug was introduced in iOS6.1.3 or whatever, migrated into iOS7 and maybe some other code change occurred that makes it a more commonly occurring corner case than in iOS6.

     

    If it was a bug in iOS 6 that migrated over into iOS 7, then it would have affected the devices BEFORE the iOS 7 update, and even if you could restore back to iOS 6, the bug would still be there.  You're contradicting yourself.

     

    It's a known hardware issue in certain iPhone 4S models (and also, in much rarer cases, in other iOS devices).  Apple has already addressed this previously.  Whether it's a tangible, physical defect or unmodifiable firmware, that's irrelevant.

     

    pwrchord wrote:

     

    OK, one more attempt -

     

    Yes - replacing the 'hardware' with other 'hardware' that does not contain the affected Wifi chips (which as we all know, contains firmware - an internal instruction sets that run when trigger by the OS) is a 'fix'.  Two 'identical' phones (on the outside) can have different/disparate (dot rev) instruction sets of firmware running on thier respective Wifi chips.  They may runfine forever - BUT - they may not.  Based on what the bug is, the same trigger than causes one to freeze has no effect on the other.

     

    I would guess that THIS particular issue has not been around for a year.  iOS6 might have triggered the same result on the older Wifi units (that may or may not have run the same firmware) through a different trigger (but resulted in the same instruction).  There's no way for us to know that, but I don't believe in coincidence so maybe they have known....

     

    One thing for sure, many/most code will reset itself once started from zer0 (think ctrl-alt-del).  The hair dryer thing has nothing to do with reestablishing physical solder connections.  That's frankly ludicrous and dismissed out of hand.  The heat just causes the faulty wifi chip, complete with it's onboard instruction sets, to reset to 0 per a resident instruction it has for when the phone is in the overheat mode. 

     

    And per my earlier post - not all firmware can be 'flashed' or updated - Apple MIGHT have wanted to address it but couldn't can't without changing the dot rev of the firmware on the chipset.

     

    Software runs until it has a reason not to run, which in this case, is something that might have been reused from iOS6 into iOS7 - I simply don't know.  But I do know this: it's a software/firmware bug that is hanging these Wifi functions.

     

    Peace -

     

    Whether it the solder point, or another physical connection that is softening/hardening or expanding/contracting because of heat/cold, those are just as valid hypotheses as the overtemp... except for the fact (once again), that the overtemp issue would cause OTHER problems in the device other than just the wi-fi.

     

    You don't 'know' that it's software/firmware.  You're hypothesizing, just as I am. 

  • Trent Baur Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Arguing with stupid makes you stupid.

     

    You probably think dinosaurs are 6000 years old.

     

    I'm done.

  • Doc5thMech Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    It (the IOS 7etc update) interferes with wifi functions (persistent dropouts) with the Ipad, Ipad air and Ipad mini as well, as well as with an older iPad, which worked fine in this network prior to the IOS upgrade.  My daughters were wise beyond their years to ignore the Apple recommendation to up0date their IOS.  Their systems work just fine.

    So, far, none of the fixes posted for iPads, have succeeded in remediating this problem.

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,215 points)

    Trent Baur wrote:

     

    Arguing with stupid makes you stupid.

     

    You probably think dinosaurs are 6000 years old.

     

    I'm done.

     

    Why would I think that?  There's verifiable, reproducible evidence that confirms otherwise.

     

    And I suggest you refrain from personal attacks.  You've gone from debating the issue and the opinions, and now resorted to name-calling. 

  • JoeBlow2444 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    But I still think the root cause exists in the OS/firmware. Otherwise, forcing a reset thru overheating the phone could not restore wifi functionality.

    If it is a mechanical problem (for example, an unseated chip, or a broken wire or something), then heating/cooling it (a mechanical process) could very well produce a change in behaviour.

     

    For a mechanical process to produce a change in software behaviour, then Apple would have to have wired the iPhone's temperature sensor up to the wifi circuitry in such a way as to make an overheat alert reset something in the wifi chip. Which makes no sense. And doesn't explain why putting the device in a freezer sometimes works - there's no 'underheat' alert.

  • Prokhozhy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I'm all out of popcorn watching TJBUSMC1973 drawing red herrings all over the place and luring you guys into discussing solder points and warranty periods. In my book, the story is simple: Apple has sold me a deficient product (even TJBUSMC1973 keeps saying it's the chip). That's it. End of story. The rest is just alarums and excursions. Window dressing and smoke screening.

    However, we have an Apple apologist here who basically says: well, you were sold a defective product, but that's not an Apple problem, because that product has somehow managed to keep working until the warranty expiration date. Now your out-of-warranty device has lost the use of an essential function (TJBUSMC1973 does not think it is essential, but I suspect many will disagree), and yes, Apple may be able to help you, but - I simply LOVE this one - YOU HAVE TO ASK THEM NICELY.

    Now a condensed version: Apple sells you a bad egg, it goes bad after an Apple-designated warranty period, and Apple is ready to help, but you have to ask them nicely.

    Finally, condensed-condensed version: Apple sells you a bad egg, you must shut up and behave nicely.

    Is it just me, or is this a bad way to run a company?

  • jonfromdaleville Level 2 Level 2 (440 points)

    The reason this is so ironic is because Apple is probably the best rated in customer service and is probably best rated in terms of product reliability. Yet they are the worst company in the world because you happen to be one of the unlucky few to have an issue with their device. The reason he suggested to ask them nicely, is because if you've ever delt with Apple customer service, they tend to treat their customers like gods as long as you are being nice and don't act like a total jerk.

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,215 points)

    Prokhozhy wrote:

    *snip*

     

    Hey, haven't seen you in a while!  How have you been?

     

    You know, you're right.  In the end, it's an issue with a device being defective.  I completely agree!

     

    So, how do you handle a defect device?  Why, using the warranty system, of course!

     

    And what warranty did you agree to when you purchased the device?  One year.

     

    This is how warrantys work.  It is a promise that the device will operate properly during that time period.  And yours did!  That's awesome!

     

    So, now you're out of warranty.  And your device has a problem.  I guess you either pay for the service, since that's what you agreed to at time of purchase, or you replace it with another device, or you live without wi-fi.

     

    Once again, my personal opinion is that Apple should have a longer & expanded warranty program.  But that doesn't change the REALITY.

     

    The reality is that Apple is not required to do anything for you.  So, if you want them to agree to go above & beyond, then explain to me why asking politely is a bad idea? 

  • JoeBlow2444 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Apple has sold me a deficient product (even TJBUSMC1973 keeps saying it's the chip).

    All hardware can fail, given the right conditions.  Just because something failed under unusual conditions does not mean it was faulty.  I doubt my coffee mug would be able to hold molten lava, but I wouldn't consider it 'deficient'.

     

    Now, as to the issue of whether or not the iphone should be able to handle downloading a lot of data all at once- you're right, it should. And if it fails to do so within the warranty, Apple will replace it.

     

    However, we have an Apple apologist here who basically says: well, you were sold a defective product, but that's not an Apple problem, because that product has somehow managed to keep working until the warranty expiration date.

    Um, that's the whole point of a Warranty-

    a written guarantee, issued to the purchaser of an article by itsmanufacturer, promising to repair or replace it if necessary within aspecified period of time

    Note the "within a specified period of time' part.  If your device fails INSIDE the warranty period, it is covered. If it fails OUTSIDE the warranty period, it is not covered. Or, to put it another way, if it fails outside the warranty, "that's not an Apple problem".

     

    Now, you could argue that the warranty should be longer, but that's another issue. It's not longer- it's one year (2 with an AppleCare ProtectionPlan). Sorry.

     

    Apple may be able to help you, but - I simply LOVE this one - YOU HAVE TO ASK THEM NICELY.

    Oh, the horror of having to be polite to someone you're asking for a favor.

     

    Now a condensed version: Apple sells you a bad egg, it goes bad after an Apple-designated warranty period, and Apple is ready to help, but you have to ask them nicely.

    Corrected condensed version: Apple sold you an egg, which was perfectly fine during the warranty period. And if you want a favor from them, now, after the warranty has expired and Apple has no further obligation to you, then it pays to be polite.

     

    Is it just me, or is this a bad way to run a company?

    A couple months ago, Apple "announced financial results for its fiscal 2013 fourth quarter ... quarterly revenue of $37.5 billion and quarterly net profit of $7.5 billion".

     

    So... no, it's not a bad way to run a company.

  • tomski84 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Prokhozhy wrote:

     

    I'm all out of popcorn watching TJBUSMC1973 drawing red herrings all over the place and luring you guys into discussing solder points and warranty periods. In my book, the story is simple: Apple has sold me a deficient product (even TJBUSMC1973 keeps saying it's the chip). That's it. End of story. The rest is just alarums and excursions. Window dressing and smoke screening.

    However, we have an Apple apologist here who basically says: well, you were sold a defective product, but that's not an Apple problem, because that product has somehow managed to keep working until the warranty expiration date. Now your out-of-warranty device has lost the use of an essential function (TJBUSMC1973 does not think it is essential, but I suspect many will disagree), and yes, Apple may be able to help you, but - I simply LOVE this one - YOU HAVE TO ASK THEM NICELY.

    Now a condensed version: Apple sells you a bad egg, it goes bad after an Apple-designated warranty period, and Apple is ready to help, but you have to ask them nicely.

    Finally, condensed-condensed version: Apple sells you a bad egg, you must shut up and behave nicely.

    Is it just me, or is this a bad way to run a company?

    I agree completely.

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