Previous 1 24 25 26 27 28 Next 586 Replies Latest reply: Oct 4, 2014 3:34 PM by jacobfreakingharris Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • JoeBlow2444 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    your ability to spin every single argument that points to a code issue, back to hardware.

    If it was a code issue, heating/cooling the iphone wouldn't work.  Does the hairdryer re-write the code? The freezer?  Also, if it were a code issue, then EVERYONE running that code (ie: everyone who updated to ios7) would have the same problem.

    Hardware doesn't fix itself

    Technically, a robot could be programmed to fix itself, but that's kinda beyond the scope of discussing a simple wifi circuit in an Iphone.

    And, of course, the hardware isn't 'fixing itself'- a human being is (temporarily) fixing it, by applying a temperature change causing thermal expansion and contraction.  It's easy to prove how this could cause a broken contact to re-connect temporarily.

    The Wifi on certain phones has been/can be disabled by some kind of code error.  It has the ability to be reset, obviously and however, by attaining the 'overheated' status in the OS.  Period.

    So your argument is that Apple somhow hooked the iPhone's thermal sensor(s) directly into the wifi chip.  Not only does this make no sense, it doesn't explain why putting the iphone in the freezer sometimes temporarily restores wifi- there is no "underheat" sensor!!

    So please go back to your office at Cupertino and stop telling us what we know not to be true.

    So, now I work for Apple again? You need to get with vaportrails2002 and argue whether I work for Apple or not.  Let me know who wins.

  • JoeBlow2444 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    I know, I know, it's not the software, it's the HEAT... Let's try an example, though: Jack aims his gun at Joe, pulls the trigger, the trigger activates the firing pin, the firing pin ignites the powder, the gas produced by the burning powder expels the bullet from the gun, the bullet exits the gun, enters Joe's head and kills him dead. Question: what or who caused Joe's death? You are saying it's the bullet. I am saying it's a combination of causes, but essentially it was all started by Jack. For the avoidance of doubt, in this example Jack = Apple.

    Bad analogy.

     

    It's many years ago, before pagers/cellphones were invented. Joe is driving. He starts fidlding with the radio. He gets into an accident. 

    A few years later, Jane is driving while looking at her pager, and gets into an accident.

    Then, cell phones are invented, and millions of people have them, and millions of people are driving while talking on them. Of these millions, a small fraction get into accidents.

     

    Is the problems "radios", "pagers", "cell phones"? Or is it really "distracted driving"?? 

     

    No matter the cause of the distraction, the ultimate issue is Distracted Driving.  And no matter the cause of the heat, the ultimate issue is that heat revealing faulty hardware.

    Yes it is an accurate, albeit simplified, rendition of the principle for everyday applications, so please do not restrain yourself and prove me wrong.

    In science, Occam's razor is used as a heuristic (general guiding rule or an observation) to guide scientists in the development of theoretical models rather than as an arbiter between published models. - wikipedia

     

    You use Occam's razor to help create a model, not to decide between them.

     

    Apple sold me a phone with a bad chip, Apple recommended a huge download, the download overheated the bad chip and killed my phone. Simple and beautiful in its simplicity. Root of the problem - bad chip.

    And, as I have pointed out many times, nothing lasts forever. ALL things will eventually fail, under the right (wrong) circumstances.  The manufacturer does not quarantee that their products will work forever- that's why there are warranties. If it works during the warranty period (which it did, right?) , and fails outside the warranty period (which it also did, right?), the manufacturer owes you nothing.

     

    Whoever sold me the bad chip and then accelerated its demise (regardless of WHEN it was done) is to blame.

    Nope. Outside the warranty, it's not Apple's problem.

  • vaportrails2002 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    JoeBlow2444 wrote:

     

     

    Regardless- the fact remains- it's a hardware issue. Hardware issues are covered by the warranty. If you're outside the warranty period, it's not Apple's problem.

    You still failed..anyway, it is quite clear all of us had it happen right after installing iOS7, so it is quite apparent that that is what did it....yes, we all know it's a hardware issue...due to Apple's update.

     

    Hey, I have about 33 apps that need updating equaling about 2.3 GB....I will take video of the update process while using wifi...if that isn't one of your "sustained downloads", I don't know what is. (actually, I don't know because you can't show me any examples!) D'oh!

  • vaportrails2002 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    JoeBlow2444 wrote:

     

     

    I know, I know, it's not the software, it's the HEAT... Let's try an example, though: Jack aims his gun at Joe, pulls the trigger, the trigger activates the firing pin, the firing pin ignites the powder, the gas produced by the burning powder expels the bullet from the gun, the bullet exits the gun, enters Joe's head and kills him dead. Question: what or who caused Joe's death? You are saying it's the bullet. I am saying it's a combination of causes, but essentially it was all started by Jack. For the avoidance of doubt, in this example Jack = Apple.

     

    Bad analogy.

     

    It's many years ago, before pagers/cellphones were invented. Joe is driving. He starts fidlding with the radio. He gets into an accident. 

    A few years later, Jane is driving while looking at her pager, and gets into an accident.

    Then, cell phones are invented, and millions of people have them, and millions of people are driving while talking on them. Of these millions, a small fraction get into accidents.

     

    Is the problems "radios", "pagers", "cell phones"? Or is it really "distracted driving"?? 

     

    No matter the cause of the distraction, the ultimate issue is Distracted Driving.  And no matter the cause of the heat, the ultimate issue is that heat revealing faulty hardware.

     

    Yes it is an accurate, albeit simplified, rendition of the principle for everyday applications, so please do not restrain yourself and prove me wrong.

     

    In science, Occam's razor is used as a heuristic (general guiding rule or an observation) to guide scientists in the development of theoretical models rather than as an arbiter between published models. - wikipedia

     

    You use Occam's razor to help create a model, not to decide between them.

     

     

    Apple sold me a phone with a bad chip, Apple recommended a huge download, the download overheated the bad chip and killed my phone. Simple and beautiful in its simplicity. Root of the problem - bad chip.

     

    And, as I have pointed out many times, nothing lasts forever. ALL things will eventually fail, under the right (wrong) circumstances.  The manufacturer does not quarantee that their products will work forever- that's why there are warranties. If it works during the warranty period (which it did, right?) , and fails outside the warranty period (which it also did, right?), the manufacturer owes you nothing.

     

     

    Whoever sold me the bad chip and then accelerated its demise (regardless of WHEN it was done) is to blame.

     

    Nope. Outside the warranty, it's not Apple's problem.

    you so smart

  • Prokhozhy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Is the problems "radios", "pagers", "cell phones"? Or is it really "distracted driving"??

     

    You know, Joe, the word heuristic should not even be in your vocabulary, because you are not trying to find (that is the meaning of the greek root in this word) the real cause of the event, you are not looking beyond the first link in the chain of cause-effect relationships (meaning you would probably make a poor scientist despite your penchant for detail). To continue you "good" analogy, would these people have become distracted if they had no radios/pagers/cell phones in their cars? In other words, what caused them to become distracted? By your logic, cigarette-makers cannot be blamed AT ALL for the deaths of people who die because of smoking-related diseases. According to you, they die ONLY because of their irresponsible smoking. Well, yes, people are weak, and to mitigate that weakness tobacco companies are forced to place horrible medical pictures on cigarette packs - a preview of coming attractions, in a manner of speaking, a dire warning.

    Now back to the wifi situation. What was my weakness in doing the recommended (or rather aggressively promoted) upgrade that produced the heat that killed the chip that I had not put inside my phone? What did I do similar to "distracted driving" or "irresponsible smoking"? What did I do wrong? Also, did Apple warn me? Does it warn other iPhone 4S owners who continue to upgrade to iOS 7 throughout the world adding to the number of victims of this wifi disease? The fine-print do-it-at-your-risk waiver is not nearly enough to get Apple off the hook for selling phones with bad chips that fail after sustained downloads - and then keeping silent about it. I my book such behavior is completely irresponsible, and what makes it even worse is that they are probably behaving this way to protect their profits at the cost of those who have - and will - be affected.

     

    ALL things will eventually fail, under the right (wrong) circumstances.

     

    True, but in this case I did not create those circumstances (I took good care of my phone), Apple did (bad chip + huge download). Besides, I did not expect my iPhone to last "forever". Instead, my expectations were quite reasonable - I hoped that my very expensive device manufactured by a company that I trusted (at least at the time when I purchased that device) would last somewhat longer than one year and one week. And it would - if it were not for the latent defect for which Apple - not me - is to blame.

  • JoeBlow2444 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    You still failed..anyway, it is quite clear all of us had it happen right after installing iOS7, so it is quite apparent that that is what did it....yes, we all know it's a hardware issue...due to Apple's update.

    Again,it is ANY download.  In this case, it was iOS 7.

    And even IF it was specific to the download of iOS 7, that upgrade was undertaken at your own risk.

    Hey, I have about 33 apps that need updating equaling about 2.3 GB....I will take video of the update process while using wifi...if that isn't one of your "sustained downloads", I don't know what is.

    There are several reasons this doesn't matter.

    1) The iPhone may not download several updates all at once- it may process the incoming data between downloads. This allows the chip to cool off.

    2) The iPhone may not need to process as much data for an app update (or a series of updates) as it needs to  process for an iOS update. The heat (or not) from the CPU might be a relevant factor.

    3) Your iPhone may not have a faulty chip, or it may only fail at a higher temp.

  • JoeBlow2444 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    To continue you "good" analogy, would these people have become distracted if they had no radios/pagers/cell phones in their cars?

     

    Yes. Before cell phones existed, people were distracted by pagers. Before pagers existed, people were distraced by the radio, or by a passenger yapping at them, or by a pretty woman on the sidewalk, or a fancy billboard, or a million other reasons.

     

    In other words, what caused them to become distracted?

     

    Doesn't matter the cause. Only that they were distracted.

     

    By your logic, cigarette-makers cannot be blamed AT ALL for the deaths of people who die because of smoking-related diseases. According to you, they die ONLY because of their irresponsible smoking.

     

    Exactly. They die of lung cancer because they thought that inhaling the smoke of a burning weed was...a smart thing to do, I guess?

     

    Now, the cigarette makers are guilty of lying regarding the safety of the product, that's true. And they should be held responsible.  But common sense would tend to indicate that breathing smoke is bad (for example, most fire deaths are not burns, but "smoke inhalation").

     

    In a similar way, common sense dictates that you don't jump on a major software release right away-  do your research, find out what has changed, what has been added, and see how the experiences of other people are.  Common sense also says that a full re-install is better than an upgrade. (A full re-install, being done through iTunes, would not trigger the wifi heat issue.)

    Also, did Apple warn me? ... The fine-print do-it-at-your-risk waiver is not nearly enough

    You answered your own question- Yes, they warned you.

    Exactly what size print does it need to be before you consider it enough??

     

    ...not nearly enough to get Apple off the hook for selling phones with bad chips that fail after sustained downloads - and then keeping silent about it.

     

    All parts fail under the right (wrong) conditions.  This is why warranties exist. (I'm beginning to sound like a broken record here.)

    As for your contention that a manufacturer needs to shout from the rooftop every flaw in their products... well, I'll let that stand as is.

     

    True, but in this case I did not create those circumstances (I took good care of my phone), Apple did (bad chip + huge download).

     

    A download YOU chose to download.  You could have stayed on ios 6, OR stayed on 6 for a while (until the slower ios 7 trickle download happened), OR done the update thru itunes.  YOUr choice.

    As for the wifi chip- Again, Apple will happily replace your phone if it has a problem... as long as you're in warranty.

     

    I did not expect my iPhone to last "forever". Instead, my expectations were quite reasonable - I hoped that my very expensive device ...would last somewhat longer than one year and one week.

     

    If they replace iphones a week out of warranty, then people would expect them to replace iphones 'just' 2 weeks out of warranty. And if they did that, then people who had a problem 3 or 4 weeks out of warranty would expect replacements, too.  Etc, etc.  "Forever" was, of course, hyperbole.  But, answer me this: Exactly how far beyond the warranty should they replace iphones?  And, if they'll replace it despite warranty status, what point is the warranty then??

  • azizeoo Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi,

    The real solution for the issue "grayed wifi":

    http://www.google.fr/nexus/5/

     

    The change is now

  • pwrchord Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    My wife will be getting a new one (smartphone) around 1/1; it for sure won't be an iphone.

  • JoeBlow2444 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Well, here's hoping that whatever manufacturer you go with has absolutely perfect hardware that never breaks under any circumstances.

  • yniu Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    my 4s has the same problem, Apple *****

  • vaportrails2002 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    JoeBlow2444 wrote:

     

    You still failed..anyway, it is quite clear all of us had it happen right after installing iOS7, so it is quite apparent that that is what did it....yes, we all know it's a hardware issue...due to Apple's update.

    Again,it is ANY download.  In this case, it was iOS 7.

    And even IF it was specific to the download of iOS 7, that upgrade was undertaken at your own risk.

    Again, you can't show any proof of "ANY download".

     

    But you are saying that iOS 7 caused the damage to the battery and wifi...and don't say no, because you just said it. So we all should have stayed with iOS 6? Why did Apple say it was for the 4s then?  Aren't all the apps now setup for iOS 7, so how long can you actually run apps correctly with only having iOS 6 on your phone?

     

    "your own risk" is a BS excuse and we all know that. The only risk now it purchasing another Apple product in general now I guess.

     

     

    Hey, I have about 33 apps that need updating equaling about 2.3 GB....I will take video of the update process while using wifi...if that isn't one of your "sustained downloads", I don't know what is.

    There are several reasons this doesn't matter.

    1) The iPhone may not download several updates all at once- it may process the incoming data between downloads. This allows the chip to cool off.

    2) The iPhone may not need to process as much data for an app update (or a series of updates) as it needs to  process for an iOS update. The heat (or not) from the CPU might be a relevant factor.

    3) Your iPhone may not have a faulty chip, or it may only fail at a higher temp.

    So you are saying Apple made phones with faulty chips and normal downloads like apps don't download all at once to cut down the heat, unlike iOS7?

     

    The phones themselves were made in a way that they can't handle a large download like iOS upgrade over wifi all at once, so they split up all the apps to dl at different times? Do you even know, or are you just making more assumptions here?

     

    So we are all here talking about what happened to our phones after downloading iOS 7 and the resulting failure of the wifi and battery life, which is all the truth and you are here just making stuff up as you go just to make yourself feel knowledgeable?

     

    If I need lies and BS, ill just go back to the Apple store!

  • vaportrails2002 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    pwrchord wrote:

     

    My wife will be getting a new one (smartphone) around 1/1; it for sure won't be an iphone.

    I hear the Galaxy S5 is coming out soon

  • vaportrails2002 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    JoeBlow2444 wrote:

     

    Well, here's hoping that whatever manufacturer you go with has absolutely perfect hardware that never breaks under any circumstances.

    It's not under any circumstance....have you read the title of the thread?

     

    Well it was perfect until we decided to put Apple's latest and greatest iOS on our phones.

     

    Got anything else?

  • cgajardo.scl Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I've been waiting to write this message for some weeks, since you've been telling everyone that this is a hardware issue that just appeared when the phone downloaded iOS7; en my case that's so untrue.

     

    I got an 4S, as soon as I updated to iOS7 my WiFi went grey, my bluethoot still worked but I couldn't turn WiFi on. I was seriously considering buying anothe phone, but I couldn't afford it (xmas is coming and such) so I kept my 4S for a while. After a little more than a month my WiFi fixed itselft, I didn't do anything, it just works (wink) again, but for some days I couln't open the clock app (weird!). All of this makes me believe that this is more of a software issue than a hardware one.

     

    I can't speak for anyone else, all I can say is that as far as my experience this is a software issue.

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