clipping sound on new iMac when Logix X is running

johnpaul,

Just a little clarification in regards to the USB2/3 issue..

Some USB2 devices were either

A ) Badly/Cheaply designed in the first place causing the issue when used on a USB3 port (The ultra cheap Midi to USB adaptors found on ebay.. would be one example of this)

B) Designed in such a way that the Devs cannot perform a firmware/Driver update to fix the issue... (Mackie and M-Audio are two examples)

C) The original design did not follow the guidelines provided causing this issue when used with the updated USB2/3 library routines used by both Apple and Microsoft (as the same issue is present with Windows 8.0/8.1) Digidesign/Novation etc.. would be good examples of this situation

As a quick example, Mackie have had to release updated revisions of some of their hardware and only these updated revisions are compatible with Mountain Lion/Mav... and Win8 or higher.. The original revisions will never work with those OS's... and anyone who bought the earlier revision is, as they say, SOL

You can more about this Mackie issue here

Obviously this issue doesn't just affect Mackie but several other Audio Devices.... and while some have been correctly fixed by means of a firmware/driver update.. and some never had the issue in the first place... others either cannot be or haven't been fixed yet... resulting in the current situation.

Hi john

Thanks very much for the work on this it makes sense re. USB 2/3 issues and the advice of the updated FireWire unit.

I will be asking my supplier to accept a return and will purchase the Safire pro 14 and FireWire to thunderbolt

Will let you know if it sorts the issues

Ta

Paul

Not to get your hopes down or anything, but I've tried an interface through thunderbolt/firewire and that didn't help my problem.

Mavericks solved the snap, crackle, pop issue on my 17 1TB fusion iMac. Now I have the AI problem. Fine for 20 minutes then begins to stutter and progressivley gets worse. Can be fixed by resetting the core audio by unplugging or any other method but will return in 20 minutes. This happens with Logic and all audio output.

My AI is a Presonus AudioBox 22VSL. I have a ticket into Presonus. Sounds like all AIs have this problem with Mavericks and the USB3, don't know if the fusion drive has anything to do with it.

I can think of a simple test you can try with both interfaces. BTW, I'm surprised the Inspire still works in Mavericks.

Anyway, you play guitar I take it?

Lay down a two or three minute bed of loops or loop you can play over.

Save it as a project.

Start recording 44.1kHz 24-bit guitar tracks over the top of it, record the full 2-3 minutes. Have a single Space-Designer on a bus for verb. Each guitar track should have Logic's compressor with identical settings. Use channel EQ at will.

If you can get six tracks down and mixed without problems move on to the next stage.

Next add a couple of virtual instruments to the project...an ES2 should be one and whatever else you want. Just make sure you use the same virtual instruments on both interface tests.

This should take you well over 30 minutes and will give you an indication of system/Interface stability.

(I thought this time you were going to track #2 below which is the current complaint regarding Mavericks & LX.)

So far I've tracked three different kind of audio noise being created in/with Logic-X, ML and Mavericks.

1. The Rice Crispy Effect, (Mountain Lion (possibly Mav) - your original post in this thread)

2. Stuttering-popping, (Mavericks - after using the system for a period of time it starts to stutter, pop)

3. Noise cause by incompatible drivers (mostly the Focusrite interfaces using the ML drivers but others as well.)

There is another noise that's very similar to the rice crispy effect which is caused by the digital audio input not being locked to the 44.1/48 kHz sample clock. I don't think that applies here.

As far as USB2/USB3 problems... personally I've never trusted USB for audio, USB packet transfers are directly handled by the operating system, FireWire on the other hand has the hardware to offload the transfer process from the system, noticeably less CPU use. (hopefully Apple didn't mess with that)

Also, I usually don't trust interfaces MIDI or Audio that are System compliant (no drivers) Upgrading the OS, even incrementally becomes a crapshoot, if Apple decides to upgrade their USB drivers there's no guarantee of the same performance.

I'm still on Logic 9 and Snow Leopard, my computer runs flawlessly, I need it to run like this, there's nothing in the new operating systems I need so why bother.

As far as USB2/USB3 problems... personally I've never trusted USB for audio, USB packet transfers are directly handled by the operating system, FireWire on the other hand has the hardware to offload the transfer process from the system, noticeably less CPU use. (hopefully Apple didn't mess with that)

No.. They seem to have left it well alone.. as all FW stuff here is working per normal on 10.9.... and with no extra demands made on the CPU compared to any past OS X version...

Amazing huh?

🙂

As for your comments on the use of USB and not trusting System Compliant devices... You get a big +1 from me... The only class compliant stuff I somewhat trust are those that have the ability to accept firmware updates to fix any possible issues in the future and even then, Im still wary...

As for your comment about Snow Leo and Pro 9... (and as we have discuessed in the past) I still have 10.6.8 and 9.1.5 running on one of my rigs and to this day it is still the most stable of all my different systems...and the most efficient in terms of CPU usage imho... Most of the OS X updates do nothing positive for Audio anyhow... Having said that I like the new LPX look and feel.. and some of it's new facilities.. which is why I updated another of my rigs to ML.. but if it wasn't for my clients all scrambling to have the 'latest and greatest" for whatever crazy reason/excuse they come up with..... (One computer and they 'need' iCloud.. is the most common one I hear) I wouldn't even look at Mavericks for at least a year...

So I was considering buying a new iMac but am I ever glad I read this first! Yikes! What a horrible situation, especially if your business is audio related.

So I have some questions.

1) Are the problems directly related to fusion drives?

2) Are there reports of 7200rpm drive computers not having such problems?

3) Are Apogee Duet interfaces running smoothly or are there problems

The Art Of Sound wrote:

As for your comment about Snow Leo and Pro 9... (and as we have discussed in the past) I still have 10.6.8 and 9.1.5 running on one of my rigs and to this day it is still the most stable of all my different systems...and the most efficient in terms of CPU usage imho...

Yes, same here, I was running 9.1.3 which was doing well but upgraded to 9.1.5 at your recommendation. One thing that seems to be better in this version, well, two things...... I'm getting much better CPU distribution over 4 cores and "Comp Takes" seem to be more solid.

Brentonius,

1) Yes, it does seem its only the ones with Fusion Drives that seem to have the issues with Audio distortion "Rice Crispy" effect... etc..

2) I have a 2013 iMac with Standard 7200rpm HDs and no issues here at all.. despite extensive testing/attempts to recreate the issue. Nor have I come across anyone with standard HDs in a 2013 iMac having these issues so read into that, what you will.

3) I have three clients all using Duet 2s with the latest 10.9 compatible drivers under Mavericks and no problems reported. Apogee are also claiming full compatibility with all current Duet models as per here...

Pancenter,

Yes.. 9.1.5 does seem to provide better load bearing across the cores... I notice that a great deal using 8 cores.. and a little more stability in some areas of LP compared to 9.1.3 which was my previous choice...

For me, this particular setup has proven itself to me over time to be the best overall combination of Logic 9 and OS X that i can recall.. It is my 'go to' system for my own personal projects... though of course I still do use LPX etc.. simply to get used to them for providing support to my clients.. and SL simply isn't a realistic possibility on my newer Macs... but when I just want to sit down and record without any hassles or workarounds needed.. and know I wont have to worry about any possible lockups or odd behaviors.. 10.6.8 and 9.1.5 is my DAW setup of choice.

As a complete aside... I will going to see the new Mac Pro "in action" in a few weeks time i gather.. One of my clients will be getting one (he says he's getting one of the upper end versions...) and wants me to come over and help set up so that should be interesting to say the least! Way out of my price range to be honest given what i already have here.. but it still looks, from the specs at least, to be one heck of a beast...

Well that's a relief. So the Duet is working with the new iMacs? I wish Apogee would confirm this... It seems all they can confirm, so far, is that it has no problems with Mavericks. Are your clients all on the new iMacs (late 2012 model)?

I meant 2013...