clipping sound on new iMac when Logix X is running

The issue is to do with 2013 iMacs with the Fusion drive installed.. No Fusion Drive, no issue as far as I can tell...

As I said, my own 2013 iMac which doesn't have a Fusion Drive, doesnt have and never had this issue with 10 .8 and now doesn't with 10.9..

To answer your other question... Yes, one of my clients has a 2013 iMac without Fusion Drive and his Duet 2 works perfectly okay using the newest drivers...

...and as to why Apogee cannot or are not answering your question? They may not know about this specific issue (or have only just found out) as this problem has only just been identified by users.. and the Apple Engineering team have only just been made aware of it.. and have only just started work on providing a fix for it... so it's very early days!

It'ss also worth pointing out that some users have reported the issue appreantly fixed by installing Mavericks.. (The original issue was with Mountain Lion) while a few others have said that is not the case.... so at the moment, no one is completely sure either way.

My personal advice is to either buy a non Fusion Drive (FD) iMac...(I really didn't see much advantage over cost benefits when buying a Fusion Drive version for Audio work after doing some side by side tests with two identical Mac Minis (two of my testbed setups here) .. one with and one without a FD which is why I choose to go down the non FD route..) or wait a few weeks until a fix has been issued by Apple to resolve the issue and then purchase a Fusion Drive version.

As far as I can tell, the fusion drive issue has be fixed with Mavericks, The rice crispies are gone. The problem now is with audio interface boxes that are usb2 and are not playing nice with usb3. Possible that the fusion drive is never the less the culprate but I doubt it. Most likely the AI developers need to get out a firmware fix. USB should be backward compatable but these are new days, new chip sets, new usb and new drive architecture.

Clambake wrote:

As far as I can tell, the fusion drive issue has be fixed with Mavericks, The rice crispies are gone. The problem now is with audio interface boxes that are usb2 and are not playing nice with usb3. Possible that the fusion drive is never the less the culprate but I doubt it. Most likely the AI developers need to get out a firmware fix. USB should be backward compatable but these are new days, new chip sets, new usb and new drive architecture.

And for Audio/DAW/MIDI users there's absolutely no sign that the "New" stuff is going to work any better than the "old" stuff.... even if you get the firmware and driver issues resolved the "new' operating systems are top heavy and tend to negate the performance increases. I'm betting my 3 year old single processor quad core Mac Pro running Snow Leopard can out perform some of the new iMacs as far as number of tracks, plugins, stability, clean audio, recording a live 90 minute band session, latency...etc. (RME Audio Hardware, MOTU MIDI, 3 internal 7200 RPM drives)

However, you will have spent your money keeping Apple happy and help nudge the economy into the black. 😉

Clambake,

While I agree with you that Mavericks seems to have fixed the RC effect with FD equipped 2013 iMacs..there are still a couple of people who are cliaming they continue to have that issue even though they upgraded to 10.9. I suspect their issue may actually be something else.. but for now, it's hard to say either way.

The USB2/3 AI/MI issue is something else entirely and as you said.. some AI/MIs are simply not designed correctly to allow proper Firmware/Driver updates to fix this issue (See Mackie's stuff... where it required a physical revision/change to their hardware to resolve the issue leaving owners of the first version.. completely without any possible solution to the problem other than the obvious go back to what hardware/software/OS X combination used to work!)

No problems with FW equipped AIs it seems... so if one has a FW or TB equipped AI, you should be good to go under 10.9 if the AI's drivers are compatible.. But, if you have a USB2 equipped AI then it's still a bit of a crap shoot with a 2013 FD iMac I suspect, (or even without FD on any Mac.. as some people have reported..) hence my advice.

As to the problem itself?

My best guess is the FD issue is Bus related and adding more load via USB2 probably sends it over the edge at this time...until Apple release either a software or firmware fix.. but of course, i could be way off base with this guess. Time will tell..

+1 Pancenter..

That is probably one of the most astute observations that many people just don't 'get'..... because they constantly want the 'latest and greatest' for whatever reason.. instead of having the 'most stable and efficient" setiup/rig.

The Art Of Sound wrote:

As to the problem itself?

My best guess is the FD issue is Bus related and adding more load via USB2 probably sends it over the edge at this time...until Apple release either a software or firmware fix.. but of course, i could be way off base with this guess. Time will tell..

I'd be curious as to what kind of drive interface is in the new iMacs, what if they were using a USB 3 interface with the fusion drives... :-o it could happen, be even cheaper.

Ok the FD drive is Apple developed..

"The operating system automatically manages the contents of the drive so the most frequently accessed files, applications, documents, photos and other data are stored on the faster flash storage, while infrequently used items move to or stay on the hard drive. For example, if spreadsheet software is used often, the software will be moved to the flash storage for faster user access. In software, this logical volume speeds up performance of the computer by performing both caching for faster writes and auto tiering for faster reads."

Ok, I honestly don't see how this benefits audio users moving large files, all it does is make yet more work for the OS.

Yes.... This is why my own testing of identical Mac Minis.. one with and one without FD produced results that really didn't seem to benefit Audio work... to any degree and certainly not enough to warrant the cost of the FD imho...

The OS itself can be a bit snappier for sure and initial startup time is quite fast... but I really didn't see any worthwhile benefits over a fast internal 7200rpm drive when dealing with various different sample libraries in K5.. multiple audio files.. and other Audio related loads.. and also in reality I found the FD'd Mac Mini was more prone to Core overloads than the non FD'd Mac Mini during a long test/work session, duplicating the same work on both to give a good idea of any realworld differences between the two otherwise identical setups

Just wanted to say, The Art Of Sound is making a very real contribution here, well thought out replies and I for one appreciate it. Pancenter, you also make a good point, we are victims of "new is better" but that can't be helped otherwise we would all still be using OS9. Time and progress marches on.

Thank you both for an intelligent discoarse. Keep it up.

Clambake wrote:

Just wanted to say, The Art Of Sound is making a very real contribution here, well thought out replies and I for one appreciate it. Pancenter, you also make a good point, we are victims of "new is better" but that can't be helped otherwise we would all still be using OS9. Time and progress marches on.

Thank you both for an intelligent discoarse. Keep it up.

Except when new is not better... there always comes a point where progress is not progress relative to your needs. Stability, and consistency are my needs and the recent operating systems on both platforms (Mac/Win) are heading in a one-size-fits-all direction and are becoming cumbersome, to say the least. Sometimes we upgrade without needing to... Mac upgrades/planned obsolescence are coming quickly these days... I've watched this forum the past couple of years, people spend more time upgrading and fixing problems than using what they have, to their best ability. It can be an inspiration killer.

Hi all

Yes thanks to all concerned so far...

I have just spoken with apple uk support and they are aware and awaiting action from developers in the coming weeks, they suggested getting some file from focusrite called class compliance mode to solve the issue.

Called focusrite support and explained this issue and that I had not used a driver at all as they were very perplexed as the class compliance fixed was to remove any older USB driver , which I don't have and revert back to pure class compliance if that makes sense....

Soo what I am going to do is swap out my focusrite 2i4 USB AI for the Safire unit using thunderbolt and FireWire .

Will let you know what happens this evening uk time

Thanks

Scrub my last post

My local apple store doesn't have thunderbolt to FireWire cables in stock will have to wait for delivery arghhh

This is not going wel

Hi deadphish. Your Apogee Duet is definitely USB2.0. I'm relieved as **** to hear it is working without a problem on your new iMac. I just have one question. How many items are plugged into your USB slots at the back of your computer? Have you tested audio playback for an hour or more without a problem with audio degradation?

Also, Art of Sound, thank you so much for your posts. It's good to hear (well, kind of) that the fusion drive seems to be the culprit here. I personally detest the fusion drive for audio work. As a consumery gimmick, sure, maybe I can see why people get it, but not for pro audio especially if you do orchestral compositions that constantly pull samples from the hd during playback. I've always been very suspicious of FD.

So it really does seem fusion drive related, all these problems. But that is still unacceptable as macs really should "just work." It's a shame they don't.