clipping sound on new iMac when Logix X is running

The Art Of Sound wrote:

There is one other thing that probably needs to be said... and that is..

While it may seem obvious to us that it is a iMac and FD issue, simply because it only affects iMacs with FD fitted, it may not actually be so.

It could be a conflict in the CoreAudio software with the FD software.. It could be a Bus issue.. it could be a bug in another library routine somewhere in OS X that is causing a conflict with the software routine used by iMacs and FDs... and not the FD or it's software at all!

True all....

The fact that it seems to only affect recent iMacs equipped with the FD (AOS's Mac Mini with FD is not affected) probably means it's the iMacs firmware interacting with either the FD software or related FD hardware.

Your right, and I totally agree.

It wasn't really the date but more a proper guarantee it will get fixed and we won't be left with dodo's...I was also hoping for confirmation from them it's being worked on...which didn't quite happen :)

I'm just trying to decide on the refund thing if it comes to December with no word of a fix...which I also suspect is going to happen with the complications of all this.

Really love the iMac, superb except this uber audio issue.

Fingers crossed...or should that be bus' crossed.

So It's hard to believe that they don't know anything about this issue by now but anything is possible.

Again, it will depend on who you speak with.. and as most of us will never get through to chat with someone on the actual US Engineering Team (ET) itself.. I'm not surprised the 'lower' techs don't know about this issue because until the ET posts up their report, there is nothing on the CSR/Tech Database... for the others to look up/refer to...

All I can confirm is the ET is fully aware of the issue and is working on it... because I was partially privy to a telephone conversation between them and one of my clients, which I posted about earlier in this thread...

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5428602?answerId=23719283022#23719283022

I've just been observing the thread and obviously there's a big problem here.

I ordered 7 iMac's altogether, 6 for my business and 1 for personal use. Although the problem seems to be sorted from the remits of my use (which is not pro audio but purely entertainment) I can assume the popping and crackling would still exist if I were to record any audio using my machine(s).

From my dealings with Apple I am almost sure they're aware of the issue and the extent of it but they're doing their best to avoid a major issue just to cover their own back. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they dealt with it on a case by case basis with only people who have reported the problem because swapping these machines for alternative spec may work out cheaper for them than spending days/weeks/months on developing new FD software or worse case a recall with new hardware. You could call it a "goodwill" repair where they don't acknowledge an underlying issue but if you're aware of the problem, they will repair/replace.

I'm speaking from experience here btw, I have a 2010 27" iMac which has had numerous issues, Apple didn't want to help at all until they realised (I made them aware) I was a business user which could potentially net them multiple high value orders. It's a shame but that is business and Apple like many other corporates I've come across work to a strict bottom line.

If you want this problem sorted, keep hassling them and let them know you're not happy.

Hi

After an hour on the phone to various apple people, this is what I have learnt

As art of sound says lower tech and after sales either don't know or are not saying.

No fix eta as we all have learnt

I could not persuade them to extend the 30 day returns policy even with an open case this would have to go to arbitration which implies a risk to me of purchasing a white elephant for the time being.

So ...options open now

Try the workarounds ... Not keen as not a mac expert

Return for refund

Return and respec for 27 imac with 1tb 7200rpm drive 16gb ram as they don't use the 7200 hdd on the 21 inch this will cost me another 320 uk pounds as my current spec imac 21 with 1tb FD and i7 CPU 16gb ram.

Return for swap to same as my current spec and after 4weeks seek another replacement if the fix not sorted. Don't want to go on the refresh merry go round and all the waste age that incurs with time and trucking.

So looks like upgrading to the 27 with fater i7 but slower HDD which hopefully give the reliability.

Can I confirm that the spec of

Imac 27 with standard 7200 HDD and Haswell I7 has not suffered this particular clicking and popping issue with USB AI such as focusrite 2i4

TIA

Paul

Clandestyne, I think you are making a good choice in getting the standard 7200 hard drive. To make you feel better about your decision, please be aware that the ideal set up for an audio-based computer is to store samples off your internal hard drive, on an external SSD, or even 7200 rpm drive. So having an internal 7200 hard drive for apps, or even your audio projects is not bad (some would argue its better to run sessions off a 7200rpm external, but I prefer running sessions straight off the internal drive, and backing up constantly to an external, but that's just me). I mean, it all depends on what you are doing, as there are certainly many levels of audio work.

Also, the modern shiny new 7200rpm drives are much faster than their predessessors. My old iMac's 7200rpm internal drive clocked in at a slowish 75MB/s write speed and 83 MB/s read speed on average. Now my new iMac's (late 2013 model) 7200rpm internal drive clocked in at 154 MB/s write speed and 163 MB/s read speed on average. That is *plenty* fast for most audio work needs. Also, my iMac is very silent. I can never hear my hard drive. What I'm saying is the newer 7200 rpm drives are ideal for audio. In fact, I wouldn't need my SSD at all if I were not producing giant orchestrations using libraries that demand SSD for a prime performance.

The only *real* benefit I see to the fusion drive are programs opening faster (I would assume the Mac software would place most apps there, so opening Logic would take a second or two. But is that worth the premium price Apple charges, just to have a program open faster? It certainly does not run faster after being open). But I think this is outweighed by a large negative. The vast majority of your drive will be a much slower 5400rpm anwyays, and I doubt the Apple software would be smart enough to stream samples from there. So technically speaking, performance-wise, if you had a 7200rpm drive steaming samples vs. a fusion drive, it is likely that you would get MORE performance out of the 7200rpm drive. Crazy eh?😮

Third party, non-Apple SSDs and Hard drives will always be cheaper and just as good as Apple's. My LaCie external SSD, connected via Thunderbolt, clocks in at 424 MB/s write speed and 686 MB/s read speed. To be hoenst, this is really only neccessary if you are working with large orchestrations or if you do work on movies, with large Pro Tools sessions. So I think saving up your hard earned cash to buy a real SSD rather than one that is only like 1/10th SSD is a better choice (you are really buying a 5200rpm drive for more money, if we are talking about sample streaming...).

It really is my opinion that the fusion drive is a bad idea, it's really a gimmick to sell you a 5200rpm drive for more money, with a paltry, small SSD. I dunno, I think it's a bit of a scam.

Apologies! I meant 5400 for those times I wrote 5200. Need coffee before I post 😉

Thanks for all that brentonius

Yes all makes sense I thought the FD was a golden egg ... Not now unfortunately

Will most likely go with the 27 with 7200 and i7 and in time add to this some external sdd storeage or USB 3 fast hdd for more space as and when required .. Probs the Lacie stuff

Thanks again

Paul

brentonius wrote:

The vast majority of your drive will be a much slower 5400rpm anwyays, and I doubt the Apple software would be smart enough to stream samples from there. So technically speaking, performance-wise, if you had a 7200rpm drive steaming samples vs. a fusion drive, it is likely that you would get MORE performance out of the 7200rpm drive. Crazy eh?😮

brentonius,

This is not completely true. The mechanichal drive on my iMac 27 Fusion Drive is 7200 RPM.

Before doing just the same (ie returning the FD version and replacing with a regular hd version), I tested the workaround. Currently I have dual boot. From FD or from external HD. My external HD is a 7200 RPM disk connected via USB3. Booting and working from it is soooo slow comparatively to the FD. The only reason I can live with it is that I only use it for Logic and audio mastering.

Update:

Apple Ireland phoned me and stated their engineering team got back to them regarding the Audio cutout core axion fusion drive mavericks issue.

They said "it's up to Motu to support fusion drive"

Well there is the chance it is Motu's drivers but I thought other manufacturers are having the same issue?

I've told Motu about apples response...awaiting response.

Update 2:

Bad news...I think.

As I feared, Apple are blaming Motu drivers and Motu didn't know...motu think its Apple at fault.

And that's going to around and around and....

Well, that's enough for me...not going to be left with a useless expensive piece of gear.

Bummer :/

Oh good to know! Apologies, I thought that every fusion drive had a 5400rpm drive. If they have 7200rpm drives in there then that's much better!

Wound,

Sorry but I cannot say this often enough....

Most of the Apple CSRs do not know about the iMac 2013 and FD issue (yet because the USA Engineering Team, which is the main team working on this problem.. have not yet issued a formal report and put it up on the CSR database) and so, the CSRs and other Engineering teams around the world.. are assuming its going to be a Audio Interface driver issue which is a reasonable assumption given the nature of the problem... and typically this would likely be the case under other circumstances.

Now, having said that.... there might also be a Motu issue with certain Motu products as well as the FD issue but my tests have shown the latest Motu drivers work perfectly well with my Motu Ultralites (Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3) using Firewire... with Mavericks and a Non FD fitted iMac 2013 model.. I cannot speak about Motus connected via USB2 to a USB3 port because i couldn't test that.... but the Firewire versions work absolutely fine here execpt when I tested them with the 2013 iMac with FD fitted... and then the issue with noise and FD arose as expected.

So...

The three possible scenarios are....

If you have a 2013 iMac with FD fitted.... (Sorry.. I cannot recall your current Mac's specs) You will most likely have the FD issue... and are awaiting a fix from Apple to resolve this. You can test this out for yourself by simply booting from an external drive and the problem should vanish....

If you don't have a 2013 iMac with FD fitted and you are using a USB2 Motu connected to a USB3 port on a recent Mac with Mavericks.. this is a different issue and is one that could require a fix from either Apple, Motu or both,....

If you are using a FW Motu with a recent Mac with Mavericks... then that will be a Motu driver issue.... with your particular Motu model.

I had my 40 mins on hold and several conversations with the Irish apple team and pro apps again today.

I had a real issue getting a return number and at one stage was thinking that they were trying to stall. After some time and some brow beating I managed to get a return number for FD equipped 21 inch imac purchased end of October.

Have reordered from online store 27 imac 7200rpm standard hdd with i7 processor and 16gb of ram obviously at extra cost to me.

I found the apple phone teams very courteous but they kept sending me back and forth to pro apps who had all the details from me weeks ago.

So very soon will re embark on some music making and recording

Thanks

One last thing..

If you have BOTH a 2013 iMac with an FD fitted AND you are using a USB2 Audio Interface connected via a USB3 port THEN you could have a combination of BOTH of the two main issues and you will require BOTH a fix from Apple for the FD issue AND a fix from Motu and/or Apple for the driver issue...