Pages 5 features checklist

A few years ago I had to turn to Time Machine to try to recover a file that had somehow gone wrong. I discovered that Time Machine hadn't been backing up properly and I couldn't recover it.

When I bleated about this on here I immediately had a fanboy on telling me I was all my fault because Apple said quite clearly 'Time Machine wasn't made for business use' and I shouldn't have been relying on it for backup in the first place.

Seriously... you cannot win with some people. Doesn't matter what Apple does - it's always the user's fault.

Hmmm... well first, one "fanboy" saying something on here a few years ago is hardly an authoritative statement on either Apple support, or the community support that can be found on these discussion boards, which I routinely see to be quite helpful.

In regards to "Doesn't matter what Apple does - it's always the user's fault", while I can point out both times when Apple has accepted fault for issues they have caused users, and times when they have not, or have not yet (like the current issue with a very very bad decision regarding migration of legacy Pages '09 documents), that is almost irrelevant. Whether it is "Apple's fault" or not, the best strategy for a user in regards to any software, any operating system is to take the data protective measures best suited for whatever files are in question.

I have had professional software from Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, and others crash and lose data on me countless times over the years. Sure, I could blame all of those companies for have software that can crash / not backing up my data in real time, etc. But ultimately, all that blame would not make my data safer or accomplish anything. It's up to me to make use of the applications' save features, backup features in the OS, etc.

Blaming software / hardware vendors until they produce perfect hardware and software that never fails no matter what is not a good long term strategy. We have yet to see an infallible piece of hardware or software, or an infallible human for that matter. It's a bitter pill to assume complete responsibility for what is important to you, but it isultimately the only way you can truly guarantee what you care about.

Or, you can prove Apple and the fanboys wrong by finding an OS and software solution that IS perfect. Windows? Android? Office? Google Docs? Check those discussions forums first though, since I'm pretty sure they have their share of issues as well.

😝 Is it possible to use Pages 4.3 once you have installed 5 - on a Mac? I would think not...

A good alternative to Word is Swift Publisher.

Yes it is but if you open files in 5.0, you can't edit them in 4.3 anymore, so if you don't have a backup make copies!

Jan Bjorn wrote:

😝 Is it possible to use Pages 4.3 once you have installed 5 - on a Mac? I would think not...

A good alternative to Word is Swift Publisher.

Here we go again.

It's up to me to make use of the applications' save features, backup features in the OS, etc.

Which is exactly what I did - to no avail. If Time Machine isn't there to recover data... what exactly is it for?

Of course there's no perfect solution. But Apple's imperfect ones seem to be getting markedly more imperfect for professional users by the year. We've only ourselves to blame. Probably for buying Apple.

If you don't save the document in Pages 5.0 you still can open it in Pages 4.3. This might not be true if you have iCloud connection though (I don't).

It's definitely there for data recovery. It's terrible that Time Machine failed you. That shouldn't happen. Time Machine is really a sort of backup for convenience sake, and probably the blurb you got was a version of this. It's not "meant" as a substitute for regular cyclical multi disk backup or RAID recovery (which btw often fail as well - nothing is ever really backed up unless there's a copy on the moon!). I've become a backup freak over the past ten years, multiple copies on and off site, regular disk rotation, etc. I use Time Machine for convenience and version access. It's a great feature when it works right and frustrating when it doesn't.

But, it's not a sign of the demise of Apple. Nobody else has a perfect solution either.

Oh, I didn't notice that. Aren't they being converted on auto save?

fruhulda wrote:

If you don't save the document in Pages 5.0 you still can open it in Pages 4.3. This might not be true if you have iCloud connection though (I don't).

This is the iOS description on the App Store. "And iCloud automatically updates your work across ALL YOUR Devices and on the web. They're all optimized for iOS 7, so no matter how big or graphically rich your files are, these apps can handle it. Beautifully."

Not quite true no is it? I would say that this is, by all accounts, blatantly false. Of course, if you take out "ALL YOUR DEVICES" from that sentence and restate it as "ALL YOUR iOS devices" it might be true but that's not what it says. Furthermore- "no matter how graphically rich your files are, these apps can handle it" is a bold face lie. We all know that is not true. Maybe if it said, "no matter how simple and kindergarten-like your etcha-sketch drawings are, these apps might handle it. Maybe" it could be construed as true- but again, that's not the case- is it?

robogobo wrote:

Oh, I didn't notice that. Aren't they being converted on auto save?

At least in one instance (my first Pages 4.3 -> Pages 5.0 upgraded document, iCloud-stored, which I opened in iOS 7, which prompted me to upgrade the OSX apps)—autosave converted and killed the history: Having seen the disarray, I checked for earlier versions... and saw nothing. By happenstance, I had a 2-day old copy on a USB stick. I know that a single file is statistically irrelevant, but I do not have the time to experiment with this.

Well, I should make it clear that both myself and my wife have run into extremely frustrating bugs / failures in Apple software over the last few years. I also find myself disappointed and extremely inconvenienced from time to time because of seemingly arbitrary limitations, or outright failures of Apple software or hardware. So I personally think Apple is FAR from perfect, and often glaringly flawed in their products.

Beyond this, my only comments are:

1) Apple software and hardware has ALWAYS been quirky and buggy in my experience. Particularly new versions of either. It generally takes a couple years before new hardware features or new software (and I consider the latest version of iWork new software that is very poorly mislabeled as an update to existing software) can be counted on to work stably and intuitively. I'm not sure I would agree with some who have said that Apple software is getting more buggy recently, but I do think that they have been releasing a lot more version 1.0 software in greater volume than ever before (look at new iWork, iOS7, podcasts app, maps, iCloud, etc. etc.) As I said version 1.0 Apple software has always been buggy, and sometimes egregiously so.

2) I do think it is reasonable to expect Time Machine to function. But experience tells us that that expectation can still fail. Best to either use an alternative backup solution, or regularly monitor your Time Machine backups to ensure they are working. I don't claim this is "just working" or a good state of affairs. I'm just saying it is the unfortunate reality, and one that Apple should focus on more since it is key for many users.

3) I am an Apple fan, but not a fanboy. I think that people should only use Apple products so long as they providethe best solutions, hardware and / or software for their needs. At any point when Apple products fail to do so, users should vote with their dollars and their usage and go to a different platform / application / solution. I do believe that Apple focuses first on the needs of the mainstream, not professionals. I also believe that long-term, this can and sometimes does relate in better pro-level software that is more intuitive and streamlined. But when the software isn't there yet, and not useable by professionals, users should make that clear and switch to a better solution for them. For me, Apple still provides the best overall experience in software and hardware. I recognize that for many, that may not be the case, and those users should move on to something that suits them better.

This, as you mention above, is the ultimate responsibility of a user. To choose the best solution for their needs. So again blaming Apple for being flawed, blaming Apple for being Apple is ultimately a non-solution. Apple is very much as they always have been and likely always will be. If that is too disruptive or unpleasant for a user, I think the smartest thing is to find a better option sooner than later. But some of the blaming and ranting I've seen on this thread is non-productive and doesn't help users.

Alerting users to issues and defects: very helpful (as Peter's running list exemplifies). Suggesting alternatives that work better that Apple products for specific needs: very helpful. Making statements about how Apple hates users, how "dumb" the people who work at Apple are, how Apple is driving everyone off a cliff, etc. and using this forum as a place to vent in a non-solution oriented manner: not helpful. To clarify to Bodsham13, I am not saying you vented in this manner at all. My examples above are reference to other comments earlier in this thread, made by others.

If you just close the document (Cmd + W) you'll get a question if you want to Revert changes. Accept that and you are back to the original version.

I don't know f I have done any seting in the System preferences that affects this but I don't think so.

Mr Jinks: "My first disappointment was to discover that the iPad was really a toy, and not a serious replacement for a laptop"

Oh dear.

When Steve Jobs announced iPad he made it clear that it was not intended to replace the laptop and Apple never presented it like that. The original iPad keynote is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBhYxj2SvRI

It's within the first few minutes too ...

I'm sure the architects, students, surgeons, teachers, aircraft personnel and more would also laugh at your assessment of it being "really a toy". I think the iPad is brilliant. It can do some tasks better than anything elsel, but equally it can't let you develop apps or run Final Cut Pro. It's not meant to!

Horses for courses. For some people, an iPad can do everything they used their laptop for and it would be a "laptop replacement". For some none of their main uses for a laptop are possible on an iPad. The gap is closing, but that is where you have to do some homework and make an intelligent assessment.

My "intelligent assessment" involved, amongst other things, discussing the product at length with Apple personnel in my local Apple store, and of asking specific questions about the capability of the iWork apps for the iPad. Maybe the staff should have been better trained in the capabilities of the product, or made to watch the presentation you refer to . I for one do not feel the need, nor do I have the time to follow Apple Corporate presentations, on YouTube. I do expect competent advice from its personnel when I am making a buying decision. Had I received sensible advice at the time, I would have purchased a Macbook Air then and not later.

I see the iPad as an extension to my iMac and MacBook Air. It's great for showing examples when teaching. But I would never use it to replace my iMac. And it's definetly no toy. I bought the Logitech keyboard case to have a keyboard for faster typing. But there are apps like Pages that are impossible to use on the iPad, however intuitive Apple may do it. It's ok for some 1-2 sided papers, but I would never produce a brochure or magazine or book on my iPad. For that I have my iMac with second monitor.