Exchange servers and Mavericks Mail

peter_watt wrote:

Don't worry, those on level 2 and above mostly monitor the forum. You may have noticed your last post was removed.

Yes. I find it deeply interesting that my message was removed, while direct personal insults from csound and inked remain. That's an interesting statement on Apple's part: apparently Apple chooses to support people who attack and insult people who report actual problems.

jorhett wrote:

Yes. I find it deeply interesting that my message was removed, while direct personal insults from csound and inked remain.

Please provide a link to one of my direct, personal insults.

Csound1 wrote:

Please provide a link to one of my direct, personal insults.

Every message you post. Your last two:

In the first you call me a liar, and say what I'm saying is a curse word. This is in response to a rational post where I had clearly outlined the technical basis for the test and for checking if there was a relationship in the problem.

In this previous message you insult my technical ability with no basis.

The truth of the matter is that Csound has demonstrated no technical capacity, and his every post in the forum is an insult or an attack. Apple moderators, either take action against Csound or we'll simply terminate any discussion of preventing the loss of several million dollars a year in purchases.

Removing my post where I asked him to stop interrupting technical discussion with personal attacks was out of line. If you continue to allow Csound to persist with yet more personal attacks and zero technical discussion, then I will terminate this discussion and our business with you and deal with businesses who operate more professionally.

I did not call you a liar, I linked to the post containing the text you claimed not to have posted, if you consider that to be a lie why post it in the first place.

I also did not question your ability, (although I do now question your ability to get your lab to work correctly). I assumed that a recalcitrant IT dept was at work but now that you have cleared that misunderstanding up I know that it is in fact your responsibility.

Your posts were removed by the moderators for violating the Terms of Use for this site, if you are not familiar with those terms there is a link to them at the bottom of the page.

And (obviously) you can do as you please with your business, I do not respond to threats, however couched.

I had it removed because it was a direct insult using inappropriate language. That overshadowed your main point of complaint. Nothing to do with Apple or their views.

I gave you the best commercial advice. Get your desktop buyer to talk to your Apple supplier. Apple do not read these posts.

jorhett,

Since none of us are experiencing major issues with Mac Mail it is hard to diagnose. There's still some minor issues, but Apple is aware and it does not impact users to the degree you are mentioning. A few hunderd Mac's that are on Exchange servers one way or another and no more major issues since updating to 10.9.2 and also making sure the Exchange server is fully patched.

Csound1 wrote:

I did not call you a liar, I linked to the post containing the text you claimed not to have posted, if you consider that to be a lie why post it in the first place.

I also did not question your ability, (although I do now question your ability to get your lab to work correctly). I assumed that a recalcitrant IT dept was at work but now that you have cleared that misunderstanding up I know that it is in fact your responsibility.

Your posts were removed by the moderators for violating the Terms of Use for this site, if you are not familiar with those terms there is a link to them at the bottom of the page.

And (obviously) you can do as you please with your business, I do not respond to threats, however couched.

"If you told the truth" is calling me a liar. "More BS" is also calling me a liar. I never misspoke, you are just making up things and attacking me based on not reading what I wrote. I was very clear on every message.

Those are personal attacks. Your posts should be removed.

I could also go back and find one after another of you calling other people stupid and incompetent too.

Apple needs to either censor you, or lose our business for failing to provide a professional forum.

peter_watt wrote:

I had it removed because it was a direct insult using inappropriate language. That overshadowed your main point of complaint. Nothing to do with Apple or their views.

I gave you the best commercial advice. Get your desktop buyer to talk to your Apple supplier. Apple do not read these posts.

Why exactly are you not removing Csound's posts? I am unable to find a single one of his posts that doesn't contain multiple personal insults.

And "inappropriate language"? I said "adults are talking here" -- was the sum total of what you might consider objectionable. Csound says "idiot" and "bullsh*t" and various other things. Exactly why are his posts not removed?

I did say "It s-ucks for me" in my original post (which is not an insult or attack on anyone else) but when I saw that s-ucks became astericks I replaced the word. So there isn't a single inappropriate word in that post.

bradhs wrote:

jorhett,

Since none of us are experiencing major issues with Mac Mail it is hard to diagnose. There's still some minor issues, but Apple is aware and it does not impact users to the degree you are mentioning. A few hunderd Mac's that are on Exchange servers one way or another and no more major issues since updating to 10.9.2 and also making sure the Exchange server is fully patched.

On what basis are you defining major issue? If a user has to reboot they could lose hours of work shutting down the Fusion VMs on their systems and restarting them. It's a major interruption. This is what you've listed as the known workaround (which our testing agrees with)

If they are required to reboot to get outbound messages to go out, that's a major problem. Where do you define minor?

If they receive meeting invites an hour after the meeting occurred, do you consider this minor? Some of us have both PC and Mac desktops and we can compare when the messages arrive on each.

Exchange server 2010 fully patched to latest revs. We can also reproduce identical client behavior with Exchange Server 2007 patched to latest revs.

More than six months after its lauch, Mavericks Mail is still "bugged" with Exchange - even with the 10.9.2 update Mavericks Mail keep creating huge problems for corporate Mac users - that depend on Mail Exchange servers to be connected.

It's amazing how Apple is completely unable to solve such serious sofware bugs for so long and ignores how this attitude is destroying its reputation for fiability in the corporate and business world - and in so many Apple users around the world.

peter_watt wrote:

I had it removed because it was a direct insult using inappropriate language. That overshadowed your main point of complaint. Nothing to do with Apple or their views.

And now you have removed 5 more messages full of technical content accurately describing bugs in the product and with no insults or snide remarks.

You have left Csound's snide remarks and insults for everyone to see.

I think you've made it clear where Apple stands on this issue. You've lost a significant amount of business today. The $14k that I personally spent on Apple products in the last twelve months is a pittance in that regard.

The moderators decide which posts are removed and which are not, abide by their decisions.

Csound1 wrote:

The moderators decide which posts are removed and which are not, abide by their decisions.

The forum ToS does not say that technical content is inappropriate. It does say that direct insults like you generally spew out are inappropriate. They are not implementing the ToS. They have no basis for removing those posts.

They have however made Apple's policy on addressing their own bugs quite clear: insult the reporter with a purely technical message is OK. Technical messages that demonstrate bugs are not okay.

In the event of your opinion not matching the moderators opinion it will be the moderators opinion that counts.

Has 10.9.3 fixed anything for anyone?

I've been working sort of OK for a bit. I just had to remove a ton of older emails. Sometimes it gets caught when I'm deleting a lot of emails at once.

Due to this, I'm considering moving my 18 person company up to Mavericks.

Would love to hear others users recent experiences.