Macbook Pro Retina 13" late 2013 (Haswell) UI Lag

Which particular rMBP and OS X version did you try this?

ccccandles wrote:

I have the latest Safari and have noticed no difference. Are you saying that installing 8.0.2 fixed lag system wide?

While I would "normally" react like you and think that the Safari fix cannot be a system wide fix, I think that it MAY be a system wide fix due to the fact that 8.0.2 (and its precurser 8.0.1) is the only Safari release so far that focuses on graphics according to its release notes. So it or the upcoming 10.10.2 which will be including it may bring a solution.

Nonetheless, IMHO, after seeing the "kext" thing (see my previous post), it seems to me that the problem stems from Apple imposing the gpus to downclock. And the proof of that is how people get much better fps after deleting/editing kext. Unfortunately this solution seems to be applicable only to dGPUs. So if someone can apply this solution to the integrated GPUs, that would seem to solve the problem. At this point I wonder whether this is theoritically possible for integrated GPUs??

I think that it MAY be a system wide fix due to the fact that 8.0.2 (and its precurser 8.0.1) is the only Safari release so far that focuses on graphics according to its release notes.

I am very skeptical of this. IIRC, the update to Safari is to address WebGL on retina displays. WebGL is used typically for rendering games (it's used for all kinds of things, but you'll likely only encounter it in games) inside the browser, much like OpenGL is used on other platforms.

Also, as the lag is experienced without even opening Safari, the culprit would have to be a very low down dependency that Safari, as well as other OS X applications are built on, meaning that a patch would be for the system, and not specifically Safari. I'm definitely no expert, but this was my first reaction when I heard the theory.

Nonetheless, IMHO, after seeing the "kext" thing (see my previous post), it seems to me that the problem stems from Apple imposing the gpus to downclock. And the proof of that is how people get much better fps after deleting/editing kext. Unfortunately this solution seems to be applicable only to dGPUs. So if someone can apply this solution to the integrated GPUs, that would seem to solve the problem. At this point I wonder whether this is theoritically possible for integrated GPUs??

An uncerclocked GPU could definitely be the cause of shoddy performance, however I don't see there being much of a solution for this. To be honest, I'd rather have sloppy performance over a hot and loud laptop. If the laptop can't handle its own OS without getting hot and draining my battery, then I'll just have to concede to the fact that it's not as great as I'd hoped it would be. Until then I'm going to carry on hoping that it's either poor optimisation of the hardware, or maybe our laptops are from an imperfect batch and Apple will replace them for us.

Just wondering if when you go to the maps app turn on 3d then go to Tokyo or newyork if when u r looking at all the buildings u start to see the lag? Also can u keep that window open and still use your computer? Mine got pretty bad and I just wanted to sell the piece.

ccccandles wrote:

Nonetheless, IMHO, after seeing the "kext" thing (see my previous post), it seems to me that the problem stems from Apple imposing the gpus to downclock. And the proof of that is how people get much better fps after deleting/editing kext. Unfortunately this solution seems to be applicable only to dGPUs. So if someone can apply this solution to the integrated GPUs, that would seem to solve the problem. At this point I wonder whether this is theoritically possible for integrated GPUs??

An uncerclocked GPU could definitely be the cause of shoddy performance, however I don't see there being much of a solution for this. To be honest, I'd rather have sloppy performance over a hot and loud laptop. If the laptop can't handle its own OS without getting hot and draining my battery, then I'll just have to concede to the fact that it's not as great as I'd hoped it would be. Until then I'm going to carry on hoping that it's either poor optimisation of the hardware, or maybe our laptops are from an imperfect batch and Apple will replace them for us.

Sure, it is not a desirable and ideal solution. But it is a potential solution nonetheless which one may opt to apply at his own risk. Besides, have you seen the benchmarks available in the link I posted in my previous post? Below I am posting it again for your convenience:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1554168

The GPU Diode Temp of the discrete GPU is 60c when kext is not deleted (the default setting). This demonstrates 60c is safe and reasonable as this is generated with Apple's downclocking. When kext is deleted, the integrated GPU Diode Temp increases by approx %16.5 to 70c, yet with a relatively significant fps boost. I cannot comment on whether such temp increase is unsafe or not to the extent that one would opt to use kext deleted. The same post also measures the GPU Diode Temp of the integrated GPU as 45c. If we assume that a similar solution of kext deletion would increase the temp by the same percentage, then it will increase to 52.5c. At this point, if 60c is safe, then 52.5c is even safer. Perhaps my logic is wrong due to these being different GPUs embedded in different chassis, but such temp increase looks to me relatively insignificant for which I can make sacrifice if it introduces significant fps bump. Last but not least, those benchmarks belong to early 2013 rMBP, therefore the temp increase may be even lower and the fps bump even higher with Haswell and better intgrated GPUs, namely Iris and Iris Pro.

Also if I go to this site http://www.traveltheroad.com/store/travel-the-road-expedition-journal

when u scroll down to the YouTube video does everything get horribly laggy? I can barley use mine especially when I click play on the video.

it does not get slow when I turn off hdpi using the rdm thing but otherwise with the retina hdpi on its slow as junk.

it also does not get laggy on my girlfriends older non retina 13 inch pro.

I've went to the Apple store about 2 weeks ago to test out all the retina display MacBooks. I realized, they are all choppy in one way or another. Seems like I was expecting the smoothness of an iPhone considering they are made from the same company. I've just accepted that their is going to be some lag. When safari gets a little laggy, i just close all the windows and 2 finger click the safari icon in the dock, and select "quit." That seems to help all the time. I have learned to also shutdown my laptop every other day. I sleep it 1 day, and shut down the next day. So I am shutting down about 3 times a week. Overall, I am still happy with the Macbook.

And for the record, it is very easy to downgrade back to Mavericks if that is what your Macbook came with. All you have to do is restart your computer into "internet recovery mode" - I think its command-option-R . Then completely delete the hard drive( i mean everything) and then reinstall the operating system. It will automatically reinstall Mavericks if that is what your computer came with when you bought it. Good day

've went to the Apple store about 2 weeks ago to test out all the retina display MacBooks. I realized, they are all choppy in one way or another

I saw this myself on the laptops at a local computer store. The problem here is that Yosemite introduced a whole new league of lag on Macs, but it isn't isolated to the retinas like in prior OS X releases. Like I mentioned a few posts back, these threads pre-date even Mavericks, but if you look though the history of this thread, you'll notice a huge spike in activity around the release of Yosemite. I'd be willing to bet that most people who have contributed to this thread since october are only experiencing 'Yosemite lag'.

And for the record, it is very easy to downgrade back to Mavericks if that is what your Macbook came with. All you have to do is restart your computer into "internet recovery mode" - I think its command-option-R . Then completely delete the hard drive( i mean everything) and then reinstall the operating system. It will automatically reinstall Mavericks if that is what your computer came with when you bought it. Good day

The difficulty of downgrading to Mavericks was in keeping all my data and Applications. I was able to get a copy of Mavericks from the App store and I made an installation disk, but Migration Assistant wouldn't let me migrate data from my Yosemite backup. I decided a decent computer was worth it though, and decided to do a clean install and pull all the data manually from my TM disk.

I'm now running Mavericks, and as I mentioned earlier, the lag is greatly reduced. But it is still there. If you only noticed UI lag after you updated to Yosemite, this is a different issue. However, Yosemite being so laggy now makes it a difficult task to demonstrate to the Genius bar what the problem actually is.

Just went to best buy and reproduced the lag with the 13 and 15. Both with the same graphics cards.

I took them both to http://www.traveltheroad.com/store/travel-the-road-expedition-journal

scroll down to the video and if u have the dock icon zoom turned on try to scroll over that while the video

is running. The lag is terrible. Maybe that would help genius bar.

I tried the same thing on a non retina and it did not lag.

That's very interesting. I followed the link before and assumed the lag you were referring to would have been scrolling. I didn't see any. But the dock, jeeeeez. I've never actually seen dock lag on this computer before now, so that is definitely something. Mission Control was also stuttering like crazy with just that page in focus. I changed my resolution using Display Monitor and like you said, it only showed these symptoms in retina mode. I don't understand how a video in a small frame like that can cause such a huge issue, when the same video in a larger frame shows much less lag.

its interesting that I can just click the " watch it on Youtube" button on the bottom right corner of the Video, and while watching it on Youtube ....the dock shows absolutely no lag. Just being unable to watch that video on that webpage without having the dock lag dreadfully shouldn't make us panic too much.

Mine has some lag even without playing it.

The mac becomes unusable when playing it.

I did notice when using Google Chrome or Mozilla it didn't lag as much.

I Cant Upload Videos to youtube without my computer freezing, and the computer was $1269

One year later since the original post, and these issues are still here. Last night i stopped at fnac and gms stores and tried every 2014 model I could put my hands on, and none were able to provide a lag free experience.

If only the discrete graphics version would allow to manually select the graphics card, that problem would probably go away. For those who were willing to bear the cost of less battery life, I mean.

You need to have an app that kicks in the discrete graphics card. That also "fixes" the problem... If you call that a fix.

2000$+ machines that can't handle UI ...

I'm a very loyal customer, I like apple products, but these issues are just preventing me to get a new mbp. And I already returned a late 2013 last year. Come on Apple!!! Wake up and do what you preach in every ad, keynote, wwdc, letter, announcement, ...

I agree. I actually sold my retina bc of the lag. I just decided to build a pc for half the cost that can do more anyways.