Netflix quality HORRID after update

jimpal wrote:

The poor experience here in Minneapolis (Comcast service) in prime viewing hours only confirms this problem is bigger than just Apple TV's

No, this problem is ATV specific. If Comcast is overcommited in some areas that's a Comcast problem (note that Comcast customers have also reported ATV specific problems). Trying to link a device specific problem (the one we're talking about here) to a general ISP problem isn't helpful since it only confuses some people. Suggesting it's an Netflix cache issue (Open Connect) isn't helpful. Time Warner doesn't cache but has no trouble delivering superHD streams at almost any time and I always get HD streams as long as I don't use the ATV. It's not a cabal of ISPs trying to break Netflix. The ATV is a niche device in the Apple product line and probably inconsequential in the total Netflix bandwidth consumption compared to consoles, tablets and phones.

Right, this thread needs to maintain a laser-like focus on the Netflix-ATV issue.

I live in Minneapolis, use Comcast, and can get HD quality from Netflix at prime time on any and every other device. This is definitely a problem between Netflix and the Apple TV app.

There is something weird about the frequncy of Minneapolis postings though. I almost wonder if there is some kind of A-B testing going on behind the scenes at Netflix or Apple. Like, testing different delivery algorythms or some such thing.

If this probelm were showing up in San Francisco, I feel like the tech bloggers would would screaming about it. Is there anybody here from SF with this problem?

I'm from Seattle with Comcast, and for the record, Netflix was garbage last night on not only AppleTV 3rd gen, but also Roku 2 and Blu-ray player. It tried to play HD stream on blu-ray player but would stop and buffer every 3-4 seconds. Speedtest shows I'm getting 70mbit down and Amazon Prime streams HD flawlessly at th same time along wtih any other service. Really starting to think that Netflix Stream itself has run out of bandwidth and is secretly distributing less and less of it in various directions. Saw a thread where someone said Netflix admitted back in August it was struggling with their bandwidth bigtime. Not trying to switch directions on the the thread by any means, just documenting experience. I hate the fact that like others have mentioned, this seems like an issue that all the tech bloggers are avoiding bringing up almost like its a big secret. Have to wonder if Netflix is paying them off to keep quiet about major bandwidth issues or inability to meet steep demand by customer base..

Lukazoid wrote:

If this probelm were showing up in San Francisco, I feel like the tech bloggers would would screaming about it. Is there anybody here from SF with this problem?

Thanks for your comment, and all the others. The Comcast thread I quoted above was from San Francisco.

I think you misunderstand both he and I. I do think this is Netflix's problem, and that includes their failure to deal with Comcast in a way that financially motivates them to prioritize their new increased HD system flow. Naturally Apple will have to work with Netflix to develop an app that will handle whatever Netflix does.

We'll see.

I feel obligated to say that it's not just ATV. There are several comments in this thread about iPad 4 (including mine) and iPad Air devices showing a similar problem.

Agreed that Netflix is definitely struggling with quality.

But... how does that explain the fact that I can Airplay Netflix to my Apple TV at perfect, steady resolution while my native Netflix ATV app chokes and sputters? That is the key differentiator IMO and tells a more specific story.

CharlieP wrote:

Agreed that Netflix is definitely struggling with quality.

But... how does that explain the fact that I can Airplay Netflix to my Apple TV at perfect, steady resolution while my native Netflix ATV app chokes and sputters? That is the key differentiator IMO and tells a more specific story.

My iPhone 5 does well, but my iPad Air and ATV do not. Netflix quality is marginal, and some Apple apps (prepared by Netflix) deal with it better than others. I think we are both on the same page. Hopefully Apple is pushing Netflix to fix these things. We'll see.

Lukazoid wrote:

If this probelm were showing up in San Francisco, I feel like the tech bloggers would would screaming about it. Is there anybody here from SF with this problem?

It is definitely showing up in SF. I'm in SF bay area. I think one of the other frequent posters in this thread is as well.

Jimpal, I hear you. I'm not trying to be arguementative or anything. There is definitely an ISP (Comcast) issue at hand for some people. All I'm saying is that there are multiple problems, but this thread was originally created for the specific ATV-Netflix issue. When all of the problems are rolled into one thread, it makes it a lot harder for us all to discuss.

The problem orginally being discussed here seems to be different than the SF area poster's problem. It started very abruptly when ATV pushed out an update about a month ago. The streaming rate drop is more than 50%, it's like an 89% drop in kbps, just in the Netfix test video, and just on the ATV. For most posters, all other devices work fine, and they show a solid-to-excellent ISP connection.

I am very suspicious of Comcast as well. They have not proven themselves to be entrely trustworthy. But it's hard to pin this specific one problem on them, becasue it's been occuring across many ISPs.

Does this sound right, or am I making things worse?

Lukazoid wrote:

Jimpal, I hear you. I'm not trying to be arguementative or anything. There is definitely an ISP (Comcast) issue at hand for some people. All I'm saying is that there are multiple problems, but this thread was originally created for the specific ATV-Netflix issue. When all of the problems are rolled into one thread, it makes it a lot harder for us all to discuss.

The problem orginally being discussed here seems to be different than the SF area poster's problem. It started very abruptly when ATV pushed out an update about a month ago. The streaming rate drop is more than 50%, it's like an 89% drop in kbps, just in the Netfix test video, and just on the ATV. For most posters, all other devices work fine, and they show a solid-to-excellent ISP connection.

I am very suspicious of Comcast as well. They have not proven themselves to be entrely trustworthy. But it's hard to pin this specific one problem on them, becasue it's been occuring across many ISPs.

Does this sound right, or am I making things worse?

There's no argument. As I've said, the real problem is Netflix not making a streaming deal to handle their increased HD content Comcast likes. That's not blaming Comcast, it just is what it is. I think we are all trying to find the cause, whatever it is.

All is well. Us Minnesotans are having enough disappointments with the Vikings. No need for any of us to make it worse.

Lukazoid wrote:

The problem orginally being discussed here seems to be different than the SF area poster's problem. It started very abruptly when ATV pushed out an update about a month ago. The streaming rate drop is more than 50%, it's like an 89% drop in kbps, just in the Netfix test video, and just on the ATV. For most posters, all other devices work fine, and they show a solid-to-excellent ISP connection.

I agree - this thread is not about Comcast and Netlix - the topic here is - what caused this sudden 85% drop in Netflix picture quality on basically all Apple TVs around November 11 (with all non-Netflix-Open-Connect ISPs)?

Most Netflix/AppleTV users would never participate in a thread like this one. They would never call Netflix, Apple or their ISP. They simply accept the fact that somehow the picture got crappy. I casually asked a friend of mine about his Netflix experience (with a 20-down-TimeWarner Cable connection) on his Apple TV? His response: "oh it's unwatchable right now - we thought it must be our internet connection - we just stopped watching..." - Have they contacted anyone about this? No. Most people are like that.

The other fact is: Netflix streaming during prime-time is anything but perfect on many devices. The problem is not limited to the Apple TV. But on the Apple TV it is clearly the worst, I would argue.

Yesterday (with the new update installed) we watched an episode of Parenthood - terrible, bad VHS quality despite our AT&T U-verse 50 Mbps connection. We switched to Netflix on our Blu-ray player and continued the same episode. It started out blurry, ramped up to HD and then dropped back to blurry every now and then. This is a problem Netflix has with their new SuperHD format. Way too much data and too many bottlenecks during prime-time. This fact is well documented. But while other devices manage to handle this better and switch back to HD, the Apple TV drops down to the lowest possible quality and stays there. It rarely ramps back up again. You have to click out of the program you're watching and back in and sometimes you get a better stream, but most of the time you don't.

Is this inability to ramp back up to HD a limitation of the Apple TV in general or the Netflix app? I have no idea. But that seems to be the problem here.

All we can do at this point is to keep contacting both companies with concrete complaints - Netflix and Apple, but especially Netflix! I am 100% sure that they are very well aware of this issue. What they need to hear from us is that users are upset. And that is in nobody's interest.

CharlieP wrote:

But... how does that explain the fact that I can Airplay Netflix to my Apple TV at perfect, steady resolution while my native Netflix ATV app chokes and sputters? That is the key differentiator IMO and tells a more specific story.

It doesn't really. The quality change via AirPlay is almost certainly coincidental. The data is streaming directly from the CDN to the ATV and usually from the same address. The actual stream almost certainly changes from stereo if DD is available. It certainly always re-buffers. I've seen a variety of results using AirPlay -- usually for the worse, never for the better.

Indros wrote:

I feel obligated to say that it's not just ATV. There are several comments in this thread about iPad 4 (including mine) and iPad Air devices showing a similar problem.

And as has been repeatedly pointed out that's a different problem. I never have a problem with my iPad Air or my original iPad mini if my TiVo is running at superHD.

So Good News ... Netflix is indeed aware and working closely with Apple engineers to fix this ...

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bodosom wrote:

CharlieP wrote:

But... how does that explain the fact that I can Airplay Netflix to my Apple TV at perfect, steady resolution while my native Netflix ATV app chokes and sputters? That is the key differentiator IMO and tells a more specific story.

It doesn't really. The quality change via AirPlay is almost certainly coincidental. The data is streaming directly from the CDN to the ATV and usually from the same address. The actual stream almost certainly changes from stereo if DD is available. It certainly always re-buffers. I've seen a variety of results using AirPlay -- usually for the worse, never for the better.

If I read CharlieP's comment correctly he is supporting the argument that it is an issue specific to the Netflix Apple TV native application.

In which case I would agree. Airplay from a 3rd generation iPad to the Apple TV is as reliable for me as using the Chromecast. Airplay always gets its max (4300 kbps seems to be the limit for Airplay) and Chromecast always get 5800 kbps.

We know the Airplay stream is going directly to the Apple TV - so this suggests there is something different between the way Apple TV native Netflix app and the Airplay connection to the Apple TV are accessing Netflix.