Netflix quality HORRID after update

It doesn't make sense that it is only on AppleTV though.

I just chatted with Netflix CS again (my 4 fourth time). The guy has no clue about this problem.

Please keep bugging them.

EastcoasterWestcoaster wrote:

The ISP isn't throttling anything. All other apps on the Apple TV are streaming at full HD (HBO GO, vimeo, etc.) - the only problem is Netflix, and this has been a problem since the OS update to 6.0.2 just over a month ago. The same individuals who can't get Netflix via their ATV's can then switch to Netflix via Blu-Ray player, laptop, or iPad, and can get full normal-quality streaming video.

The problem isn't the ISP or the traffic or the bandwidth or the router or the wifi. The problem is Netflix's app for Apple TV since the 6.0.2. update.

Kirby

This is not accurate. You can download and try the older revs if you like and you'll see that it makes no difference. The timing was coincidental. I'm not whether the forum rules will allow posting a direct url reference so I'll just say google ipswdownloader.

Yes I do know this. Because:

Netflix on the same wireless but run through a Blu-Ray player or iPad or Smart TV or iPhone or laptop runs just fine at full 1080p. But when it runs through the ATV specifically, it chokes.

Also because every single app on Apple TV (including HBO, PBS, Disney Channel, Vimeo, YouTube) works at full HD. The only choke point is the Netflix app.

But I can stream Netflix from that same wifi onto my ipad then airplay it to the TV and it's at full HD.

This issue is specific to the NEtflix app post-6.0.2. update on the Apple TV only.

It's not an ISP issue. If it is, then every cable company out there (TWC, Comcast, FIOS) has decided, at the exact same time, to throttle Netflix connections to 240p only via Apple TV and only since the 6.0.2 OS update in November.

It's a Netflix/ATV problem, not an ISP problem.

Kirby

GaryJR4 wrote:

EastcoasterWestcoaster wrote:

The ISP isn't throttling anything.

You don't know that. Netflix is the biggest threat to ISPs like Time Warner and Comcast. They are losing cable TV subscribers because of cord cutters. To think they would not want to make Netflix look bad is naive.

This would be really terrible for the said businesses. I am also aware of the self-same ISPs promoting their TVEveryWhere on iDevices. Traffic shaping at ISPs via DPI is well known. If a specific ISP was involved, the back-lash would be horrible.

Thanks for that! Gonna try to go back to 6.0.0 and see what happens.

Kirby

GaryJR4 wrote:

EastcoasterWestcoaster wrote:

The ISP isn't throttling anything.

You don't know that. Netflix is the biggest threat to ISPs like Time Warner and Comcast. They are losing cable TV subscribers because of cord cutters. To think they would not want to make Netflix look bad is naive.

As others have said, Netflix works fine on other devices. I stream Netflix just fine on Xbox 360, Xbox One, and laptop computers, but not on the Apple TV.

So these are the most likely possibilities (in order of likelihood):

1. The latest Apple TV update screwed up Netflix streaming somehow.

2. At very close to the same time that the ATV was updated, Netflix changed the streaming logic on their side specifically for the Apple TV. I know they can offer up different media based on specific devices requesting it.

Maybe there's a third possibility where the ISP is also able to view the packets and specifically spot Netflix streaming for the Apple TV and is throttling it, but that seems like a distant 3rd possibility.

If someone has the talent and time to do it, it would be cool if they could spoof streaming from an Apple TV from their desktop and see whether the bitrate changes or not.

I'm pretty sure that at various times earlier in this thread, several posters have re-installed older firmware, with no improvement. For me, this was originally just an Apple TV problem, with my other devices working as normal. However, my situation no longer really fits this thread, as it has progressed to all of my devices having the same problem - perfectly good Super HD streaming (or whatever the respective device's peak stream is) during the morning and afternoon and terrible, horrible, essentially unwatchable resolution at night when I want to watch something. For me, it is no longer an Apple TV issue, but a total Netflix problem.

EastcoasterWestcoaster wrote:

Yes I do know this. Because:

Think a little bit.

Would, for example, TWC want to be obvious about throttling Netflix? Would there be legal issues? Would they rather it be itermittent where Netflix is ok in certain time and places? Would that make it harder to place blame? You already have seen reports where people are canceling Netflix - the desired result. Wise up.

Alex Kim wrote:

GaryJR4 wrote:

EastcoasterWestcoaster wrote:

The ISP isn't throttling anything.

You don't know that. Netflix is the biggest threat to ISPs like Time Warner and Comcast. They are losing cable TV subscribers because of cord cutters. To think they would not want to make Netflix look bad is naive.

As others have said, Netflix works fine on other devices.

Really? I even have issues with it on Chromecast now where before it was rock solid, You don't have to look back far in this thread to see problems with Roku and other devices where there were none before. Your isolated personal experience does not mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

met_fan wrote:

I'm pretty sure that at various times earlier in this thread, several posters have re-installed older firmware, with no improvement. For me, this was originally just an Apple TV problem, with my other devices working as normal. However, my situation no longer really fits this thread, as it has progressed to all of my devices having the same problem - perfectly good Super HD streaming (or whatever the respective device's peak stream is) during the morning and afternoon and terrible, horrible, essentially unwatchable resolution at night when I want to watch something. For me, it is no longer an Apple TV issue, but a total Netflix problem.

Exhibit 1000A

While I would never put it past Time-Warner Cable to throttle streaming, this is not an ISP issue for me. Starting a show on Apple TV sometimes stalls in the first minute, failing with "Error - try again later" midway through the program. Sometimes the audio quits. ALWAYS the quality degrades. It's easy to see when things are bad if you use Closed Captions. Low bandwidth streaming uses yellow captions, while full HD has white captions. If I view the SAME show on an iPad and Airplay it to ATV, I get a flawless playback using the same Internet connection. That would be a fine workaround, but the Netflix app on iOS 7 has its own problem. After about 2 hours of streaming the iPad quits and the Airplay icon vanishes. The only way to get it back is to reboot the iPad. This happens on 3 separate iPads (V2, V3 & Air). Netflix says it's not their problem, and I'm inclined to agree. There are more than a few rough edges in iOS 7.

GaryJR4 wrote:

Alex Kim wrote:

GaryJR4 wrote:

EastcoasterWestcoaster wrote:

The ISP isn't throttling anything.

You don't know that. Netflix is the biggest threat to ISPs like Time Warner and Comcast. They are losing cable TV subscribers because of cord cutters. To think they would not want to make Netflix look bad is naive.

As others have said, Netflix works fine on other devices.

Really? I even have issues with it on Chromecast now where before it was rock solid, You don't have to look back far in this thread to see problems with Roku and other devices where there were none before. Your isolated personal experience does not mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not really sure how people having problems with other devices somehow negates the fact that I and others are experiencing a problem that is specific to the Netflix plus ATV combo. Of course some people will have all devices having Netflix streaming problems at the same time. That makes sense because it's simply a part of the network or Netflix service that is having problems.

It's the specific Netflix plus ATV combo problem that doesn't make sense without it being a problem in the last update or a problem with Netflix's specific implementation for the ATV.

You seem to be gunning hard for putting the blame on ISP throttling, and please know that I completely agree that it is a fact that they have done this in the past and are likely doing it in various locations now. But I just don't think that alone explains what I'm experiencing because of the specific experiences I and many others in this (and other) threads have had. And the reason why I want to keep making this point is that I want Apple to fix this if it is indeed a problem with the last update.

As I indicated many conversations back, I am with the majority in this thread. iPad streams at 4300 kbps, ATV 275 to 3000, never 4300 or close to 5800. At times i get 5 seconds of 5800 before it rebuffers and drops way down.

HBO Go, PBS, ESPN, all stream HD on the ATV just fine.

Got good HD streaming prior to November.

I am in San Diego with TWC, speed tests show a consistent 15 Mbps download.

What i did find interesting was when I connected up my ATV to my Verizon Mifi 4G LTE. Speed tested that link at 18 Mbs down, 10 up. My ATV was perfectly happy streaming at 5800 SHD, it did drop to 4300 for a few seconds, but then popped right back up to 5800. So if the stream is clean enough, the new ATV app can stream at 5800. It's very confusing that many with cable and 25 to 50 Mps down also have the exact same issue.

To me this (as many others have said), points directly to the ATV Netflix App. The new version is way to sensitive, or it's not buffering correctly, or Netflix is somehow streaming differently. If the iPad can stream at 4300, there is no logical reason that I can think of as to why the ATV cannot match the iPad.

As with others, my 4 chat/call to Netflix CS was a total waste of time. "It's your ISP". I tried to get her to forward the chat to their engineers, but i have little faith......

What is different between the iPad and the ATV, is that on the ATV, I see the Super-HD logo on my shows, but on the iPad only the HD logo. So the iPad stream never even attempts the Super-HD streaming. Netflix obviously knows just what device you are using. Are they streaming differently?

I have TWC coming out to my house Thursday PM, let them run their network tests. To them, I am going to ask them why my Mifi 4G LTE has better streaming then they do. I plan to leave out the fact that I can stream fine to my iPad.

I also ruled out my local network by hard wiring my ATV directly to my modem. Zero difference.

Ahh the saga continues.

PS - I am not sure it's an apple issue. As far as I know, Netflix provided the app. Seems if it was an Apple issue, other HD apps would have an issue. But it's running on the Apple HW, so it seems like Apple should put pressure on Netflix to fix their App.

GaryJR4 wrote:

Think a little bit.

Indeed. Netflix on Time Warner Possible

GaryJR4 wrote:

Would, for example, TWC want to be obvious about throttling Netflix? Would there be legal issues? Would they rather it be itermittent where Netflix is ok in certain time and places? Would that make it harder to place blame? You already have seen reports where people are canceling Netflix - the desired result.

Although the ATV is probably has the greatest sales in various streamer categories it's inconsequential compared to the PS3, PS4, Xbox and iPad.

I'm not sure how easy it might be to determine the device. The set-up is via https and the streams are presumably strongly encrypted. Now they could be doing this but even if they could hide it from end-user (in the sense that simple shaping detectors would fail) I'm sure either Apple or Netflix could discover it, it's not like the difference between 5800 and 1050 isn't obvious.

GaryJR4 wrote:

Your isolated personal experience does not mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

It's no more isolated than your personal experience.

GaryJR4 wrote:

Wise up.

Perhaps you're confusing the MSOs with the NSA.

Bob Hickman wrote:

What i did find interesting was when I connected up my ATV to my Verizon Mifi 4G LTE. ... My ATV was perfectly happy streaming at 5800 SHD, it did drop to 4300 for a few seconds, but then popped right back up to 5800.

I find the best predictor of ATV performance to be the content distribution network being used. If I used LTE and it reliably connected to llnw I presume it would also work as expected. However as previously noted I'm not doing any more fiddling so, as tempting as it is, no LTE test for me.