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Otterysteve Author

Level 1

12 points

Bootcamp with Snow Leopard and Windows XP

Hello

Previously I had used Bootcamp in a 27" iMac to install Windows XP Home for the purpose of installing Empire Total War and playing it. This all went ahead smoothly with no problems. I sold the iMac a while ago, having first removed Windows and reformatted the hard drive.

I have a Mac Pro bought in 2008 (Model identifier: MacPro3,1 ; 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon) which shipped with Leopard. I have just ungraded to Snow Leopard 10.6.8 (with software update online) and partitioned the main drive with Bootcamp. I then attempted to install the same Windows XP, which all seemed to be going well (I put it on the Bootcamp partition) until it came to restart the Mac Pro after installation. This then came up as a Disc Error and I could only shut down by holding the start button in. I have now removed the Windows partition with Bootcamp Assistant.

As this all worked perfectly with the iMac, Windows XP and same OSX Snow Leopard I don't understand why it wouldn't work on the older Mac Pro. Although, having said this, the instructiond did only mention newer versions of Windows - 7 and possibly 8.

Can anyone tell me please, is there a way of making this work with WIndows XP (as it worked before with the iMac) or do I have to buy Windows 7 to make it work?

Thanks in anticipation of your help.

MacBook, Mac OS X (10.5.2)

Posted on Dec 2, 2013 10:18 AM

28 replies

The hatter

Level 9

61,001 points

Dec 4, 2013 11:51 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Paragon CampTune X is a worthy tool to install, resize and manage Windows and Mac, add NTFS and HFS driver support (better than Apple HFS driver).

XP though was always trouble. Normally (Vista and above) treat Windows like a PC and just pull all the other drives while you install, boot from Windows DVD and format the drive you want - with Windows, and skip Boot Camp Assistant.

XP drivers were never maintained and were stuck back in the 2007 era of XP SP2 Boot Camp 2.0, and the trouble with XP SP3 that everyone had.

Windows 8.1 for all the negative reviews and detest for Metro is cleaned up, lean, and runs much much smoother and faster. And better drivers. I have not bothered to look at PC game reviews, so many are more in love with bashing an OS and tweaking their games and gpus.

XP is stuck in a 32-bit mode (Apple does not support x64 also) so most games, apps are not going to do as well as Windows 7 64-bit and above offer.

If your Mac like mine is dual cpu socket then you need a version "Pro" that supports dual socket, and if you want to access and use more than 16GB.

In another thread I chastised someone that was using a Passport drive. If you are going to go 2.5" go to OWC and get one with its own external power. Or use it on PCIe w/ USB3 (more power over data cable) and use a case that you can swap in/out the hard drive.

Want something flexible, a USB/SATA docking station that you can just pop a drive into - don't use the same drive to backup two computers with TimeMachine or CCC unless they have their own partition and is huge drive, which Passport is not.

Otterysteve Author

Level 1

12 points

Dec 4, 2013 12:16 PM in response to The hatter

Er, you've lost me again there Hatter!

I've ordered the hard drive so that's done and I can't really change this now. I'm in the UK by the way, so some of your recommendations may not apply in terms of suppliers - dunno who OWC are but I assume they are a supplier. Thing about the Passport is that is has Firewire, where most others only seem to have USB 3 which none of my Macs have. At 2TB it seems big enough to me to back-up my Mac Pro (which is quite small on the Mac HDD) plus my MacBook Pro and, as I said, to move my iTunes content - all onto separate partitions of course.

I'm getting the message that XP ain't good enough! I'll have a look at 7 and 8.

My Mac pro, which is the one I want to put Windows on, is a 2.8GHz 8 core intel xeon, with 2GB RAM. Do I understand you correctly to mean that I should chose a Windows "Pro" version of 7 or 8 to utilise this?

Thanks for all your help mate, I really appreciate it. Trouble is I don't really understand it all! :-)

The hatter

Level 9

61,001 points

Dec 4, 2013 12:31 PM in response to Otterysteve

Use to be your avatar would show where, and if I saw UK then I have some places. Germany has some excellent online pc supply places.

OWC = www.macsales.com and good way to see what is popular if nothing else.

If you want Windows to use 8 cores then yes, a version that supports two cpus like Windows 7 Pro 64-bit.

I affectionately call 2GB RAM the "starvation diet" with a touch of anema for any system let alone 8-cores with dual memory banks (Riser A and B in 2008).

Always a use for 2TB and USB3 can be added to yours, and you get huge improvement over even SATA II. FW800 is better than USB2 or FW400 but still limits I/O.

We just got done with a Passport user where the device would fall asleep during use, TimeMachine would lose the connection, the system / Disk Utility would say "not ejected safely" and result in directory corruption. Windows has better support for hot plugging and removal.

eBay (Europe)

http://viewitem.eim.ebay.dk/KOMPUTERBAY-8GB-2X4GB-MEMORY-for-APPLE-MAC-PRO-EARLY -2008-31-DDR2-800MHz/140962093586/item?transId=808969265004

Otterysteve Author

Level 1

12 points

Dec 4, 2013 1:58 PM in response to The hatter

Hmm... I spent a few hours today looking at various options for external drives, checking user reviews on Amazon.uk and other reviews. The WD My Passport Studio 2TB Portable HD was the ONLY one which had reviews of ONLY 4 or 5 stars (on Amazon.uk) and entirely positive reviews from google searches. It was also the only one with FW800 as a standard - pretty much ALL the others have USB3, which my Macs don't have, and they also ALL had highly variable reviews, some of which scoring lowest ratings. All in all I think I've made the best choice for the money I have available.

I'm sure you're right about RAM. The link you provided went to ebay USA home page but the link game me some information on what to search for. Over £200 to upgrade to that level of RAM is beyond me at the moment.

Thanks for you continuing help.

Dec 4, 2013 2:59 PM in response to Otterysteve

If you step down to 667MHz, they get much cheaper, and the performance penalty is tiny:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KOMPUTERBAY-8GB-4X2GB-APPLE-MAC-PRO-MEMORY-ECC-FULLY-B UFFERED-DDR2-667-PC2-5300-/140962093751?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_Memor yRAM_JN&hash=item20d1fedab7

Otterysteve Author

Level 1

12 points

Dec 4, 2013 3:38 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Ah! THAT look VERY interesting, thanks Grant! More in my price range! I'll have to made sure it is compatible with my Mac Pro and may go for that!

Much appreciated mate! :-)

The hatter

Level 9

61,001 points

Dec 4, 2013 3:58 PM in response to Otterysteve

They are fine, if you were in USA and on Amazon.com I would have recommended these: the first are what I have, and I know others with your system (2008, 3,1) using them. Cheap but better, they run 10-15*C cooler which helps and can be important. FBDIMMs use 10W each DIMM and source of a lot of heat. Reason there was a recommendation to wait 10-15 minutes after shutdown to let t he RAM cool so it was not exposed to sudden change in air temperature.

2x2GB FBDIMM DDR2 667MHz @ $25

http://www.amazon.com/BUFFERED-PC2-5300-FB-DIMM-APPLE-Memory/dp/B002ORUUAC/

Komputerbay 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR2 667MHz ECC FB-DIMM (240 PIN)

http://www.amazon.com/Komputerbay-PC2-5300F-Buffered-FB-DIMM-Heatspreaders/dp/B0 05HIWD5U/

An SSD for system, a pair of SSDs on Sonnet Tempo Pro for CS6 scratch too.

SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB $170 instead of 120GB

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Series-120GB-internal-MZ-7TD120BW/dp/B009NHAF06/

Icy Dock $15

http://www.amazon.com/2-5-3-5-Ssd-sata-Convert/dp/B002Z2QDNE/

Apricorn Velocity Solo x2 SSD Kit

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0090IA3GY

Temperature Monitor

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/12381/temperature-monitor

http://www.bresink.com/osx/HardwareMonitor.html

SMCFanControl 2.4+ to boost air flow default lower rpm settings

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/23049/smcfancontrol

ATI Radeon 5770

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC742ZM/A

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-ATI-Radeon-5770-MC742ZM/dp/B003Z6QH6M

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/726537-REG/Apple_MC742ZM_A_ATI_Radeon_HD_5 770.html

Otterysteve Author

Level 1

12 points

Dec 4, 2013 4:17 PM in response to The hatter

Thanks Grant.

Your suggestion got me to check Amazon.uk. I found these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KOMPUTERBAY-BUFFERED-PC2-5300-FB-DIMM-Memory/dp/B00C8AJE WA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386202122&sr=8-1&keywords=4GB+FULLY+BUFFERED+PC2-5300 +DDR2+ECC+%28FB-DIMM%29+%282+X+2GB%29+FOR+APPLE+KIT+Memory

Which was top of this list:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/277-9522500-2631266?url=search-alias%3D aps&field-keywords=4GB%20FULLY%20BUFFERED%20PC2-5300%20DDR2%20ECC%20%28FB-DIMM%2 9%20%282%20X%202GB%29%20FOR%20APPLE%20KIT%20Memory

The first one appears to be the same as the first one you told me about - and was found by pasting your USA Amazon listing into Amazon.uk search - and is clearly the same supplier, but a bit cheaper, than the Ebay link you provided. I just want to be doubly sure I get the right RAM for my Mac Pro.

Thanks again :-)

Otterysteve Author

Level 1

12 points

Dec 6, 2013 11:14 AM in response to Otterysteve

If I have to buy a new copy of Window 7 or 8, can anyone tell me whether the 32 or 64 bit version is appropriate for my Mac Pro please?

I've managed to partition the external drive used for my music samples (used with Native Instruments). I had to erase this drive first so used CCC to back-up the samples and reloaded them onto the external drive after. Then again used CCC to back-up the Mac Pro system to a separate partition on this drive. And it is bootable - I tested it and it worked! Chuffed about that - and many thanks to you all who've helped me with this! :-)

I'm still hoping to get Empire Total War up and running - hopefully this year... Waiting for Komputerbay to tell me if their RAM (the 667 ones) will work with my Mac Pro (the manual says only use 800...). Wondering if it is better for me to continue upgrading the Mac Pro for this - or whether to buy a refurbished PC for it. They are available for aroung £150 to £200 and upgrading the MP may end up more expensive. (If anyone puts any links up for stuff available please bear in mind that I'm in the UK).

The hatter

Level 9

61,001 points

Dec 6, 2013 12:24 PM in response to Otterysteve

You and everyone else, there is no reason or need for 32-bit OS today.

As I said earlier, Windows Pro 64-bit for dual processsor support, which may or may not matter so you can say a couple dollars.

Yes 667MHz FBDIMMs have always worked. Though sometimes you can run into a batch, or a problem mixing matches (same or different vendor lots).

If you want to game, you can spend US$500 easily just for GPU, Mac or PC. Motherboard $120. CPU $200. RAM $100 (you want more than base which is usually 3 x 2GB for Windows, or 2 x 4GB. Case $50. PSU $70-125.

Otterysteve Author

Level 1

12 points

Dec 6, 2013 1:05 PM in response to The hatter

"You and everyone else, there is no reason or need for 32-bit OS today."

Great, but does that apply to my 2008 Mac Pro? Will my 2008 Mac Pro run a 64 bit OS? I assume (and I may be wrong for all I know) that a 2008 MP was built to work with 32 bit OS, so I don't know if such an old machine will deal with 64 bit?

Don't think I can afford the Pro version anyway.

Dec 6, 2013 1:13 PM in response to Otterysteve

Will my 2008 Mac Pro run a 64 bit OS?

Yes. It is the first Mac Pro model that WILL.

The hatter

Level 9

61,001 points

Dec 6, 2013 1:28 PM in response to Otterysteve

Windows Vista 64-bit worked on Mac Pro 1,1

Apple's EFI 1.1 was messed up (well 2005 era code) and wouldn't really work with the 32-bit version!

Is having a 64-bit kernel req'd for a 64-bit OS?

Was your system running 10.6.8 booting with 64-bit kernel? Was SL a 32-bit OS?

I have been running 64-bit Windows on my Mac Pro (1,1) since Oct 2006.

Vista SP1 64-bit (and later) on an EFI system

(UEFI) it used a different boot loader on the installer.

Once the OS is installed it doesn't matter. 64-bit OS, all the drivers are 64-bit. Windows made full transition to 64bit with Vista 7 yrs ago.

Bootcamp with Snow Leopard and Windows XP