Busing drums to one single fader

Hi Derek,
you have two options:

- one is to create separate groups for your drums and vocals.
In the Audio Object (lower left corner in the arrange window) click and hold the button that says "Off" and select a group of your choice. Put all associated tracks into the same group. This will enable you to perform basic functions like volume, mute, solo, etc. for all the tracks in the group at the same time. It also gives you the freedom to use different plug-ins on different tracks.

- two is to use Busses as your outputs for the tracks you want to apply the same effects and plug-ins to. In order to do this, click and hold the button that says "Output 1-2" and change it to any Bus that is free. After that, you can insert any plug-in on that bus (in the Global or Audio Mixer) to effect all the tracks running through that bus. Less control over individual tracks, though.

Have fun!

Note that if you like to hand draw in automation, beware that drawing automation for one track of a group (say the snare track of a drumkit) the whole group will NOT read the automation data. Just something to consider if you want to automate your drum kit as a whole (though you can always copy and paste the automation as well).

...use Busses as your outputs for the tracks you want to apply the same effects and plug-ins to. In order to do this, click and hold the button that says "Output 1-2" and change it to any Bus that is free. After that, you can insert any plug-in on that bus (in the Global or Audio Mixer) to effect all the tracks running through that bus. Less control over individual tracks, though.

Setting the outputs of the drum tracks to "buss #" doesn't diminish any of the individual control from the individual tracks. It's simply routing them to a common buss.

You still can put plug-ins on the individual tracks, write automation to the individual tracks, etc... It in no way cause you to have "less control".

If anything, it gives you "more control" because in addition to treating the individual tracks as you normally would, you can add "global" plug-ins to the buss, write automation to the buss, etc...

Taking it down to one bus is okay. However, it is probably better to first take it down to a couple of busses in order that you can treat the snare separately from the kick in terms of compression and EQ (and are better set up for mixing styles such as the New York style). You also may want some other busses to glue some of your drums together with a room or plate reverb. From there, if you want, you can send it all to a bus. Although, I probably wouldn't because I like to automate the various aspects of my drum mixes, unless I need something that cuts out my drums in a single button push.

jord

As stated above you can still individually add compression to your snare etc.. before sending it to the bus.

What confuses me (at the moment) I am mixing an album for a band and i want to send my drums to a bus (Like you would on a console) send instruments various to another buss vocals to another. No problems so far, what i would normally do is use the aux faders on a desk for effects etc... Logic dont seem to work like that (or maybe its a setting) anyone know how to have the sends going to auxes instead of the buses.

cheers In advance

Gary M

anyone know how to have the sends going to auxes
instead of the buses

Sends always send to a bus.

However, you don't need a bus audio object to use them.

Try this - on a test new song, delete all your bus objects. Bung some audio on a track and output it to bus 1 (or use a send to send it to bus 1, and mute the channel (not the track!).

Add an aux object. In the aux object's INPUT setting, specify "Bus 1". Voila, your bussed audio is coming in on the aux channel.

In this way, aux objects act like bus objects, except auxes have send controls of their own (bus objects have none), and aux objects can also take input from other things than busses alone (namely, input objects, and the extra outputs of multi-output virtual instruments).

So in summary - a bus is not the same thing as a bus object. A bus is an extra audio path you can route signals along. A bus object is like adding a tap on the end of that path, where you can route the audio on that bus to outputs, or other busses, add plugins etc.

And an aux object can also act like that tap as well, with some extra functionality over bus objects.

Yea i totally understand that. A bus object is just a physical representation of what is going dow the bus. It does not affect the signal if say there were 5 aux with an input of bus 1. what i am saying is that there is only 2 routing matrix i.e the outputs and a bus, this can then be picked up by a bus object or aux. This is slightly different to how a mixing desk is and i am just clarifying it. I do have a extremely good knowledge of the environment but I was wondering had aux/bus routing changed in logic 7 to make it more like a mixing desk.

My second question would be, is there any way of having the names of the bus come up when selecting them in the send of a channel. i.e reverb send, delay send etc...

cheers

Gary M

what i am saying is
that there is only 2 routing matrix i.e the outputs
and a bus, this can then be picked up by a bus object
or aux. This is slightly different to how a mixing
desk is and i am just clarifying it.

Is it? The only differences I can see is that aux sends go to dedicated aux busses, whereas in Logic you can set up whatever busses you need - so it's more flexible.

My Mackie 1604-VLZ for example, has four sends per channel, and four busses (subgroups) in addition to the main outs. Logic is exactly the same, except you aren't limited to hardwired buses, you can create and route your own whereever - so if you want to aux send to a bus group, you can, whereas on the Mackie, you can't (without using cables out of the mixer and back in, that is!)

My second question would be, is there any way of
having the names of the bus come up when selecting
them in the send of a channel. i.e reverb send,
delay send etc...

In the audio configuration window, select View -> I/O Labels. Name them as you want. If you name bus 1 as "Delay Send", in all menus where you can select bus 1, you'll see the text "Bus 1 (Delay Send)".

on most mixing desks (including yours) the aux goes pre / post (some let you select) to a physical out for either monitor mixes or effects. they then return where they can be sent to a bus or to the main L/R mix. On the mixer all busses are post fade, they are rarely used for effects although sometimes a compressor limiter may be put on the drum bus. Logic has only one buss system that is can have pre / post fade but both the aux and bus use the same routing chain. One of the main differences is that on some desks you can select pre post fade / eq. This is not possible on logic too. Buses are all post fade and auxes are determined on the position of the pots. As you say logic is a lot more flexible, Just when im working on my current project logics template has 8 buses & 8 aux (objects) this seems pointless unless i am gonna use the auxes for splitting an multi instrument such as ultra beat. why? because when i send my reverb to the bus send both the aux and bus will pick up the signal. I suppose my solution is to get rid of the bus objects and clear up my arrangement a bit.

I really appreciate your help and apologize for my ignorance (asking questions before actually looking into the answers). I also apologize if i come across as being a bit narky.

cheers

Gary

I suppose my
solution is to get rid of the bus objects and clear
up my arrangement a bit.

Yeah, it is easy to get duplicate buss stuff happening if you are using bus and aux objects. What I typically do is have a bunch of bus objects for say busses 1-8, and a bunch of aux objects for multi-outputs and/or busses 9-16, so they stay seperate.

I understand your points about mixer functionality though, they aren't the same, and there are some things I'd like Logic to have in terms of routing that some desks do quite well - it has to be said though that plenty of people have a hard enough time with Logic's routing options, and often those things are easier to see when you have dedicated routing buttons spread out in front of your face, rather than hidden in menus... (and sometimes, the opposite!)

I really appreciate your help and apologize for my
ignorance (asking questions before actually looking
into the answers). I also apologize if i come across
as being a bit narky.

No worries, we're all friends here, and you didn't come across that way here at all - most of us are here to get help and give help, and most of us are learning things as we go. It's cool! 😉

You can add it as stated above, yes. However, if you apply it to your track, you affect your dry signal. Going through a bus and feeding a couple of aux channels off of the bus and applying compression to one side will allow you to mix the compressed signal with the dry signal.

And, yes, Logic DOES allow you to set up aux effects like you would on a desk. You simply have to wire it up. I often construct templates so that I always have the "wirings" available.

jord

Traditionally you would use inserts for compression as it is not a wet dry type of effect, its constructive rather than effective. But as you say, there is nothing to stop you from having both your dry signal and compressed signal going together works great for dance kick drums etc...

If you were to stick to old mix methods all compression some effects would stay on the channel strip the bus would be used as an overall mix volume with compressor limiter on it occasionally or to send your tracks to the different inputs of your reel 2 reel / adat machine. aux.'s would be used for headphone mixes and the one reverb unit and delay unit that you could afford to have in your rack. Aux sends were traditionally a way of economizing a studio setup but now we can put a reverb on every channel (cpu permitting)

Traditionally you would use inserts for compression as it is not a wet dry type of effect, its constructive rather than effective.

That's more opinion than anything else. Compression is either for control or effect and can be used in as many ways as there are engineers. Try telling any engineer who mixes New York style (and has been doing so for a few decades) that it is not a wet-dry type of effect.

If anything, I am doing a lot of things in the old methods (just as I did with analog boards).

Perhaps, things are done a little different across the pond. However, the map is not territory. And, considering that Logic can do it in as many ways as there are users, every way is correct.

jord

considering that Logic can do it in as many ways as
there are users, every way is correct.

jord

I totally agree there is no right and wrong. Certainly the teaching over here is that compression was invented as an insert rather than a send effect, It was created to automate the volume, only later was it used as an effect in the way that you say. If you look at an ssl desk it is built into each strip as a insert rather than as a send.

2 X 2GHZ G5 & Imac 1.8ghz with 1.5 gig of ram Mac OS X (10.4.6) Running Logic pro, ableton & Pro tools

Compression is an insert effect.

However, there is a very common technique that Jord is referring to, where the drums are bussed to two busses. The first bus you do whatever you want to, the second bus you (insert) compress really hard, then mix it back in low, which adds density to the drums, but still keeping the transients intact.

It's also quite common to do this with basses or acoustic guitars as well.

Some compressors have a "mix" control which dials in the original dry audio to achieve this effect without requiring setting up the routing - and I wish more compressors had this feature, actually...