Recommendation on the best HDV Camcorder to buy?

All very good points. I hope it is clear that I've just started researching.

I found a PDF brochure for the Panasonic AG-HVX200 which can be downloaded at; ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures

One thing the brochure makes clear is that the camcorder can record directly through firewire to a Mac laptop. (Although cumbersome, considering the cost of other alternatives, it would be the cheapest way of getting True HD; plus I'd get a laptop)

What is True HD? I think there are contesting opinions about this but from what I have learned (I think) so far, it appears that HDVPRO HD of the HVX-200 is superior image quality to HDV of Sony, Canon and JVC.

HDVPRO apparently has been used by broadcast TV for some time, and Panasonic hopes HDVPRO HD will be the next step up.

To get 'True HD' you have to record onto Panasonic's very, very expensive P2 flashcards, to a specialized Firestone 100 portable drive, or directly into a computer.

Some...including alledged official spokesperson, have implied that the camera could record to the new iPod nano, because it has a flash drive. This would certainly be cool but can it really be done? Is the data speed (Mbps) fast enough. Does the iPod nano even have I/O Firewire? (apparently, according to Apple Tech Specs, it can be charged by Firewire...so it must have firewire)

I was thinking of getting it at a place like http://fotoconnection.com/vi-26412______Panasonic-AG-HVX200-1-3-quot;-.html?gclid=CJfZm6Omo4cCFTHTJAod8nhyJg
,which I found on a forum, and sells for only $4,079.00

I was thinking I would start record SD onto miniDVD just to get started, or as a backup option...and then try the iPod nano? or a laptop? or the P2 cards? when I could afford to buy them next and make a decision on which storage media to use.

But - gasp! - I now have the 'suspicion' that FCE HD will NOT edit HDVPRO HD...so to do all this might require Final cut Pro HD, or -- gasp -- so other video-editing software.

This camera also has timecode and if you connected two of them by their firewire they would genlock.

My alternative that I was think of was the Canon XH A1 HD onto miniDVD for about the same price and some have suggested that this HD miniDVD format agreed upon by Sony, Canon and JVC is still the mainstream.

But even the more expensive Canon models now have the potential to record directly onto specialized drives.

Experience tells me, though, that I should get the Panasonic AG HVX200, even if I have to record SD on their high quality miniDVD's for awhile.

I still beg the question, what, in your minds is "TRUE HD?" Because DVCPRO HD isn't it. It is a compressed form of HD...highly compressed, but better compression than HDV. Compositors hate that codec for composite work.

Record from the HVX-200 to a Nano? Sorry...no. First off, it is USB 2.0 Second...the only drives that work are Firestore because they aren't just hard drives, but hard drives with microprocessors and software. Recording to an iPod just ain't possible. Sorry. The HVX-200 isn't a cheap solution, but rather a midrange solution.

FCE HD only works with DV and HDV footage...not DVCPRO HD.

My alternative that I was think of was the Canon XH A1 HD onto miniDVD for about the same price and some have suggested that this HD miniDVD format agreed upon by Sony, Canon and JVC is still the mainstream

Not DVD...HDV. The format is HDV recorded onto MiniDV (not DVD) tapes. And this is the mainstream for...? Low end productions. High end productions lean towards the Varicam (DVCPRO HD) Sony CineAlta (HDCAM) with HDV maybe being b-camera...never A Camera.

Shane

Sorry for my unintended 'double post.' (I couldn't delete the entry).

Yes, Shane, your consistently valuable input always seems to set the record straight. I hope it was clear I was doubtful myself about the iPod possibility...and when I went over to the iPod forum others said the Firewire on the iPod is only for charging and not for data transfer.

Good point, too, about the specialized software that would also be required.

I'm NOT the guy to come up with a definition of 'True HD.' but just trying to cut through all the advertising promises of pro-this, pro-that -- and finding that it appears, as you have affirmed, that DVCPRO HD is better than HDV.

Sorry about the miniDV mis-spelling.

It certainly seems clear, now, that for $4,000 (USD) more or less, the Panasonic HVX200 is a great deal; some say 'awesome.'

I'm gonna go for it; and see if I can get a home equity loan for all the rest of the cool stuff involved.

Panasonic is offering a free DVD about the AG-HVX200 at: http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/app_hd.asp

Rumors about being able to use the iPod Nano persist although it sure would be a (wonderful) surprise if true. I wonder why not if you can record directly into a computer why not into a iPod. The point about "no data transfer," may actually only apply to the fact you can't synch iTune through the Firewire. Why have a Firewire just to charge up an iPod when it charges just fine through USB? Who needs two ways to charge a product?

I was also wondering about converting the Panasonic file format MXF into Quicktime .mov so maybe FCE could be used - at least to begin with?

Since I may have strayed off the topic of "What the Best Camera to Buy?" I'm gonna look around for forums specifically about this Panasonic, since I have apparently made my decision about this question. The more I read about it the more impressed I get.

OK, let me see if we can straighten a few things out here. It sounds to me as though you need to do a LOT more research before you go and spend $5500 (not $4000 as your previous post suggests) on a pro level camcorder.

I wonder why not if you can record directly into a computer why not into a iPod.
Because on the computer you are using special software (FCP) that is not available on an iPod. You don;t just plug the camera into the firewire port and hit record. You must "Capture" your footage using FCP, AVID or someother software that can capture video in the proper codec.

Also, current iPods, including 1G and 2G Nanos do not have a firewire port at all. The Nano never has.

I was also wondering about converting the Panasonic file format MXF into Quicktime .mov so maybe FCE could be used - at least to begin with?

You cannot do this with HD footage because FCE does not support DVCPRO HD. When you edit video your editing software must support the codec which you are trying to edit. In FCP, you will convert the mxf to a .mov to edit it, but it will be a ,mov in the DVCPRO HD codec.


Do some more research and pay particular attention to workflow issues. I would hate to see you throw down 5-6K on a camera that you do not usderstand how to use.

K

Message Received; Loud & Clear.

In my research it's amazing how many times I've seen this FALSE idea that the new iPod nano could be used. From all the clear reasons given here I now totally don't believe it.

Re: Camera price - My range was $3.5-$4K (USD) and wanting to get the highest image quality. I was thinking of the new Canon
XHA1 but when I discover a link in this forum, from Jerry: : http://fotoconnection.com/vi-26412______Panasonic-AG-HVX200-1-3-quot;-.html?gclid=CJfZm6Omo4cCFTHTJAod8nhyJg
indicating the AG-HVX200 for only $4,079.00 I though I should go for it. Is there a problem with this supplier?

The new information about my idea of converting the file format -- how the codex won't change -- made it clear that idea won't work so I realize I have to get FCP or Avid.

(Although it might not be appropriate to mention in a FCP forum but, although I'm totally an AppleMan and have happily used FCE for nearly 2 years, an academic student discount on Avid makes it super, super-attractive and I figure maybe it will do some extra or complimentary things)!?

Although cumbersome I think the price of the PC2 cards are crazy and since the Panasonic brochure appears to clearly indicate you can go directly into a Mac laptop - through Firewire -- I think not only would that give me the most recording time, but I'd get a laptop out of it as well.

So my ongoing research and discussions have led me to think about getting the AG HVX200 - getting video-editing software that will handle DVCPRO HD and MXF files -- and getting a Mac laptop.

What Mac laptop? On another forum someone suggested a G4 Powerbook with a PCMCIA slot; pointing out that MacBook Pros do not have this slot!? Can a PCMIA memory card be used!?

Because of falling prices -- and the fact that I'm a PowerPC -- I was wondering about the iBook G4 with 1.42GHz and 60GB.

Ummm....I Really Appreciate what I've learned here because I've just worked with SD consumer video and FCE and almost no professional experience.

Thank again.

I discover a link in this forum, from Jerry: : http://fotoconnection.com/vi-26412______Panasonic-AG-HVX200-1-3-quot;-.html?gclid=CJfZm6Omo4cCFTHTJAod8nhyJg
indicating the AG-HVX200 for only $4,079.00 I though I should go for it. Is there a problem with this supplier?

Yes there is. That is likely a grey market model and you won't get it for that price.

Buy from a Panasonic authorized US Dealer.

Best price around is about $5400.00 and if you buy from a Panasonic authorized dealer, you will receive via a rebate one 8 Gb p2 card.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SpecialOffersForModel?st oreId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=93120&surfModel=AG-HVX200

an academic student discount on Avid makes it super, super-attractive

If you can get the Avid at an academic rate then you can get FCP Studio the same way, not only is it a much better deal (FCP, DVDSP, Motion, STP, etc) but if you have been using FCE then you will be much happier with FCP over Avid. The FCE and FCP workflows are very similiar where the Avid workflow is much different.

What Mac laptop?

Take a good look at the new intel based MacBook Pros, no you cannot mount the P2 directly in the computer but they will run circles around the older powerbooks. There are other options for working with the P2 cards, or you could get a FireStore instead.

The iBook will not do if you plan to shoot in HD. Buy the most computer you can afford, biggest HDD and the most RAM.

indicating the AG-HVX200 for only $4,079.00 I though I should go for it. Is there a problem with this supplier?

If it's too good to be true then it probably is. There is some reason that this supplier is selling a $5500 camera for $4000. Buy from an authorized dealer. I like BH Photo - http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Keep on searching...

K

Great info. I didn't know FCP could be had with an academic discount. Cool. I'll check it out. I was getting all my stuff from AcademicSuperstore.com and they never advertised FCP.

Re: Going into a Mac laptop, I read FAQ's at what I believe is a Panasonic site stating: "going directly into a PC is possible, but it may fail to record some frames per second. This depends on the performance of PC. So we do not recommend this method."
These FAQ's are at: https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/cs/csregistp2m/ep2main/faq/p2faq .htm

Re: Authorized dealer. I emailed Panasonic and they said fotoconnections is NOT an authorized dealer. They recommended using an authorized dealer like B&H. BUT they also said if you get a camera with a USA warrenty it WOULD still qualify for their current rebate offer, of buying the USA warrentied camera before the end of the year you get a free 8GB P2 card (advertised as a $1,200 value)

I think this answers all my questions about this topic. Thanks everyone for the info and the patience.

P.S. - There is a free contest, BTW, to win the biggest badest laptop, the 17"-MacBook Pro, at http://www.pcmag.com (of all places!)

P.S. - I checked out fotoconnection at a rating site: http://www.resellerratings.com/ and they have a HORRIBLE RATING AND VERY DISSATISFIED REVIEWS

That's what I said.

You're suspicions of it likely being a gray market or a bad seller were right. B&H has a used AG-HVX200 for $4,895.00, says it's in prime condition.

I shot a wildlife documentary in Thailand this summer and took the JVC GY-HD100 in a number of situations NOT recommended by JVC. Nonetheless, the camera performed flawlessly and the footage was beautiful. But draw your own conclusions. You can see a verrrrrry compressed version of one sequence by going to

http://web.mac.com/pecahill/iWeb/Site/Elephant%20Haven%202.html

Best of luck!

Interesting - I bought my HVX200 from buydig.com (not ibuydig.com) for $4900.00 I received the camera the next day and it seems perfect. I registered it with Panasonic and they have no issues with it. It's a US model - functions perfectly - I also purchased my still camera (Canon 20D) from them and received it the next day - no problem. I was so happy with the HVX200 that I decided to buy another. I called buydig.com and they very nicely told me they were out of stock and that I should call again in a couple of weeks. Seems like perfectly honest behavior. I can tell you that I have owned my Canon 20D (purchased from buydig.com for a couple of years. If I had purchased that camera from B&H I cannot figure out what that would have done for me. I did purchase my Sennheiser G2's from B&H but - I have never called B&H for any reason other than the purchase.

I also tried buying something from Royal Camera (CCI Camera City) once and received the Royal bait and switch - con job - sc*m bag - rip off. (see RIP-OFF REPORT) on these losers. I turned them into American Express and I have demanded to know why American Express has not cancelled their merchant account. The charges were reversed without incident.

So - In the future, if I buy something significant on line, I check the Rip-Off report first.

Mike

Mike, I just went thru the same thing w/ CCI and Amex. I could not get my shipping charges of $450 refunded though.... could you?
This is how I believe these jerks make any money anyway.