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Level 1

31 points

alternatives to iTunes on Mac?

So now when Apple totally downgraded iTunes 11 to become cumbersome and pointless as a music listening application and even for shopping at iTMS (they seel too many tracks or what?) by removing fully working very usable features like:

proper search
proper cover handling with multiple images (that you also typically get with Digital purchases)
Lack of duplicate listing feature
removal of next/previous buttons when in album mode info window

just to name a few* dumb moves, what usable alternatives are there out there that are:

compatible with the iTunes library format**
have the obvious features missing in iTunes present and implemented well
are sane in an Apple-like way and user-friendly, now when Apple isn't, before having "features" that are really not that important

What suggestions for an improved user music experience do you have to share with us all?

For me Mavericks 10.9.x is the environment.

*I've been a user since it was called "Soundjam" so have seen them come since 15 years

** I still want to use iTunes for Wifi syncing and iTunes match

Posted on Jul 12, 2014 9:14 AM

40 replies

Mik B Author

Level 1

31 points

Oct 24, 2014 6:29 AM in response to PeterVL57

Peter, I think you're missing how I meant "more". I am still using iTunes, just not for music listening and local playlist making.

I use iTunes for

Importing music I purchase or receive (automatically)
Watch and store video, that I typically want to sync with my devices
Sync to my devices
Create playlists for use on my devices or in Traktor
Storing my main music library
Storing local podcasts (only music). Otherwise handling podcast directly on devices

What Swinsian does is

Reading my main music library as well as additional ones, including playlists
Creating playlists for local listening (I need a way to get playlists back to iTunes, for use in Traktor or on devices)
Assisting in finding duplicates across several libraries
Give me an interface I can use for music! It's just how I want a musical interface should work. The iTunes fluff just get into the way and actively prevents me from finding my music, i e to listen to music.
This includes making a smart playlist to present my music
Detailed smart searches in the context I've chosen (Library or playlist, incl smart playlist) kept independent from other contexts. Something iTunes does NOT do.
Navigate albums by art
Sort playlists and search results

Mik B Author

Level 1

31 points

Oct 24, 2014 6:43 AM in response to PeterVL57

PeterVL57 wrote:

you can't rip CD's, no album-artist-composer-genre view, no iTunes Match, no converter, no audiophile player (I use AudirvanaPlus combined with iTunes), music-video's are audio only.

I use Max or XLD for converting or ripping as iTunes does that badly. This is semiautomatic with the help of Hazel. Audiophile player? I have an expensive Audio Interface, great speakers and a controlled listening environment (my studio mainly) that I think makes a much larger difference. AudirvanaPlus may be a player alternative, but it's 74$ plus any VAT. Swinsian is 19.95$.

PeterVL57

Level 2

304 points

Oct 24, 2014 7:07 AM in response to Mik B

AudirvanaPlus uses iTunes, but overrides the iTunes-audio-output. It gives perfect source-output to my stereo-equipement (I have a great amplifier and excellent floorspeakers as well). It's a big difference in sound-quality playing from iTunes directly, or playing music while using AudirvanaPlus. You can't compare that to Swinsian, that uses Apple standaard audio-routines (not bad, but you can do better).

You should try it. You can download evaluation-version of most audiophile players that can work with iTunes. Pure music from channelD and AudirvanaPlus are very good and affordable (So what's with the $74....You pay that for a good interlink without questioning, because it effects the sound quality very much. Same here).

PeterVL57

Level 2

304 points

Oct 24, 2014 7:26 AM in response to Mik B

Yes, you were clear on the matter you are using iTunes as well. And as I said, I can see Swinsian does a better job on some features, and I understand you can do stuff across several libraries at once and iTunes can't. I dig that.

But at the end of the day it's the quality of sound that's most important to me and so I want to work with an audiophile player. It really makes a difference. And Swinsian can't do that.

I have everything in one library on a seperate disk, search in iTunes is fine with me, nothing wrong with creating playlists in iTunes, Swinsian uses the same method for creating smart playlists, iTunes assists me in finding duplicates just fine.

I agree with you converting files in iTunes is not very efficient. I use Fission and Switch for that.

I disagree on liking the interface for using music. But that's a personal preference, I guess.

So I'll wait if Apple get's the tagging right in iTunes. If not I'm going to use a separate tag-app. But I'll stick to iTunes for playing audio.

Mik B Author

Level 1

31 points

Oct 24, 2014 9:11 AM in response to PeterVL57

PeterVL57 wrote:

It's a big difference in sound-quality playing from iTunes directly, or playing music while using AudirvanaPlus. You can't compare that to Swinsian, that uses Apple standaard audio-routines (not bad, but you can do better).

If every bit sent to the audio interface is identical, then the job the audio interface does is the determinant factor. If you sample the bit stream at the pre interface stage and determine by cancellation that the original file and the captured stream are identical, then there can be no difference pre-DAC. You will have to prove that there is a difference (There will not be silence post.cancellation( and also prove that this introduced distorsion is beneficial. Thinking it is is not proof of anything.

Having done blind listening tests including others with CD, Traktor and Vinyl I hold it likely the difference you claim is only in your head or that the app you mention introduce coloring of the sound that you personally prefer. Nothing wrong with that if that's the case. I want none of that however, and if I want to improve the listening experience I address the room (or get a better DAC, amp or speaker set).

PeterVL57

Level 2

304 points

Oct 24, 2014 9:58 AM in response to Mik B

We can discuss sound quality, what could and could not technically improve that, or what the ears and the mind can hear and perceive. If we claim to have the answer on that we might win a nobelprize. 😉

Blind tests. Right. You know scientist discovered (with blind tests) that most people can't hear the difference between a CD and an MP3 on 192kbps? That leaves a (large) minority that can. I can. As a result of these sort of findings there are people telling me I 've been waisting a lot of money buying high-end audio equipement. Because you can't here the difference anyway. They can't, so they thinks that's what the world is like for everyone. You can't debate this. It's like trying to explain the color blue to a person that's colorblind. Experiencing sound and music is still the least understood subject in psychology today.

So I settle for my personal listening-experience. I know when I hear a difference or not. Other people might not. So be it.

As for the technical side. You're absolutely right that the bits that come out of the computer will be the same as bits that will come into your DAC. Audiophile players manage the proces from reading data from the harddrive until the data-packages are sent to your DAC. Does it help? My ears/brain says it does (while yours might not..?).

Mik B Author

Level 1

31 points

Oct 24, 2014 11:19 AM in response to PeterVL57

PeterVL57 wrote:

😉

Blind tests. Right. You know scientist discovered (with blind tests) that most people can't hear the difference between a CD and an MP3 on 192kbps? That leaves a (large) minority that can. I can.

Audiophile players manage the proces from reading data from the harddrive until the data-packages are sent to your DAC. Does it help? My ears/brain says it does (while yours might not..?).

Well, I'm not sure what point you want to make as there are provable bitstream differences between MP3 and lossless material (with most material). My test objective was just to prove a point with a vinyl lover, who claimed a hearable positive difference between a release on vinyl and the mastered 24bit/192khz original.

In our case here, Identical bitstreams should result in equally enjoyable listening experiences and also, if set up correctly, identical aural recordings for all practical purposes (would be unlikely to be fully bit identical). The latter is probably futile though.

I would of course not find it out of the question that one application A, with specialized routines, could be better on moving an audio bit stream to the DAC, than another application B that uses the OS. But for that to be interesting application B would have to not have a bit identical stream compared to the original file. A perfect routine would feed this bit stream to the DAC unaltered. The setup tests in my case indicates OS X Core Audio can do this. To the interface we used anyway (comes with its own drivers). As records these days originate with Core Audio that is hardly surprising.

You always have disturbed process operation to rely on as a source of inferior sound quality. That could affect the stream. But that's not a constant factor, but rather varies with hardware and other processes running.

Oct 25, 2014 12:52 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

What's the recommended Internet radio player? That's all I really use iTune for and version 12 *****...auto launching or popping out of Dock if minimized...there's no option to remove the app from the dock only keep. The application is annoying.

PeterVL57

Level 2

304 points

Oct 25, 2014 1:10 PM in response to Ralston Champagnie

Of course you can remove iTunes from the dock. Right-click on the icon and choose option, uncheck permanent in dock and drag the icon out of the dock. That's it. Just as you're wrong about this option, you probably don't know much about the iTunes app. Pitty. It's really a good music app.

Oct 25, 2014 1:35 PM in response to PeterVL57

Mac does have a "right" click...for years one could control click or option click...option clicking just hides the window which pops back up covering what I am working on and freezes things for a few seconds...control clicking just brings up iTune menu.

I am using a MAC...what are you referring to "right click?"

PeterVL57

Level 2

304 points

Oct 25, 2014 1:34 PM in response to Ralston Champagnie

right-click = click with your right mouse button or tab with two fingers on your trackpad (OS X has many ways these days). But control + clicking your left button on your mouse does the same. In the iTunes menu that pops up you choose options, and you deselect permanent on the dock. You now can drag iTunes out of the Dock.

Oct 25, 2014 1:37 PM in response to PeterVL57

Read what I said about control clicking on the icon in Dock or Option clinking on the icon...I have been using Macs since 1988!

Oct 25, 2014 1:44 PM in response to PeterVL57

Here's control clicking...by the way unchecking KEEP IN DOCK does not remove it from Dock.

Dec 7, 2014 2:46 PM in response to Mik B

yeah, Mik B. I fully agree with you. It is really sad to see that apple's itunes is not very useful anymore – at least not for listening to music, which kind of was the hole deal why this software was invented... Especially the search for music is totally dysfunctional. In addition the mobile version is totally glitchy and delivers even worse search results and seems to have indexing problems. I used to enjoy listening to music with my iphone. Now it's increasingly frustrating user experiences. With itunes gone bad, even that is not fully enjoyable anymore... sad to see that happen to apple which really once used to be a formidable company.

Is there a mobile version of swinsian?

Dec 8, 2014 3:56 PM in response to jaguar3000

How compatible is SWIMSIAN to iTunes? Will it Sync Apple TV? Does it work with my movies and TV's shows? What are the EXACT differences between the two? Gains/Losses??

Thanks!

alternatives to iTunes on Mac?