After Effects nested comps, Motion equivalent?

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Level 1

5 points

After Effects nested comps, Motion equivalent?

I'm trying to get an overview of how Motion works.

By way of example, in After Effects, nesting of compositions is the primary way of building up a project.

Each comp is sized (in AE) to suit its intended purpose and content, and then placed (nested) into an ever higher hierarchy of compositions until one represents the final display of the project.

What's the equivalent terminology and approach to working like this in Motion?

Or is it done completely differently?

MacBook Pro with Retina display, OS X Mavericks (10.9.5)

Posted on Nov 4, 2014 11:22 AM

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Answer 1

Nov 4, 2014 12:26 PM in response to dissidently

Top level overview of the Motion is here.

http://help.apple.com/motion/mac/5.1/#motne1fe7408

Creating projects overview is here.

http://help.apple.com/motion/mac/5.1/#motn7738d566

Essentially you create your project using your final delivery settings and then build your composition utilizing your elements which are contained in groups which can also have their own transform and blending settings (affecting any layers it contains within it).

http://help.apple.com/motion/mac/5.1/#motn125263e9

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Answer 2

dissidently Author

Level 1

5 points

Nov 4, 2014 9:42 PM in response to schmackhaft

? So "Groups" are sort of like AE compositions, with the following (major) caveats:

1. Groups don't have their own size, they're the size of the originating project

2. Groups don't have their own timeline, they exist in the originating project's timeline only.

3. Groups can't be transferred (imported/exported) between projects.

have I got this right?

The reason I'm asking: trying to make something that appears next to impossible in AE because of its (ironic) terrible handling of properties on bezier lines, but moving it to Motion means other restrictions that I'm trying to get my head around.

And it's a rather large representation of a complex UI, so needs some significant levels of nesting.

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Answer 3

fox_m

Level 6

13,282 points

Nov 5, 2014 1:30 AM in response to dissidently

That's not quite right. Groups can be imported/exported between projects. Groups can have their timing in the timeline trimmed to start and end points. Groups can be sized (2D groups, set the dimensions manually to the size you require — unless you have a very specific need for this action, don't do it - 2D groups do not interact with 3D groups other than by "layering".) [Default groups are as large as the content contained within them - they're "dynamically" sized. If you Flatten a 3D group, you will force it to the size of the project Canvas. ] Groups are "infinitely" nestable. Groups can be locked. Groups have their own coordinate system so that everything inside a group is maintained within that "universe". Move that group and everything inside that group goes with it perfectly aligned with everything else within that same group.

You can save your sub-projects as a regular Motion project and import them back into other projects. Motion will "unwrap" the project into the original groups and layers.

Another slick trick is to put pieces of a project into a group and drag that group into Library > Favorites for use in other projects later on. Make sure you give the Group a name you will recognize later on!

You can select Favorites in the Library pane and click the + button at the bottom of the column. You will get a new untitled folder in the "theme" section. Rename the folder and pile all of your project into the folder. In subsequent projects, you can select all of the contents and drag them into the new project. There are some caveats to this: Rigs break. Some media might become disconnected (especially in the presence of Rigs) and Published Parameters do not copy over, so save your sub-projects before you get into rigging and publishing parameters (those should only be handled in a final project anyway.)

Best of luck!

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Answer 4

dissidently Author

Level 1

5 points

Nov 5, 2014 1:53 AM in response to fox_m

I'm amazed there's not a Motion Graphic presentation that introduces the features, functionality, methodologies and paradigms of Motion, created in Motion. Would make sense to do that, right?

As a technical demo, marketing point and introduction, surely this couldn't be done any better than a fast, intense motion graphics piece...

Secondly, thanks to both you (fox_m) and schmackhaft for your answers. Both responses have helped greatly in understanding the methodologies and scope/potential/approaches of Motion.

Particularly your comments (fox_m). What you've written should be somewhere as an introduction to the concepts of Motion for anyone coming from After Effects, Flash, or any other motion graphics software. This is the first and most important set of things that any designer needs to know (IMNSHO) in that it defines the spaces and placing of structure for anything more serious than creating lower thirds and other boring nonsense.

There's very few pieces of software for making good motion graphics, and that Motion pertains to be that by virtue of its name seems to be let down by the process of introducing its paradigms... which simply isn't done well, at all.

Someone should write an introduction, which would doubly serve as a reason to switch-to/choose using Motion. But I don't expect that to happen anytime soon, as I think their marketing budget covers only pricing it low and the long pages of feature lists.

Gripes over, for now.

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Answer 5

dissidently Author

Level 1

5 points

Nov 5, 2014 6:46 AM in response to dissidently

FARK! I clicked on the wrong thing to say "this solved my question"... my own comment, which most surely does not solve the question. I was meaning to click on the answer above my comment. How do I undo this?

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Answer 6

dissidently Author

Level 1

5 points

Nov 5, 2014 7:51 AM in response to fox_m

Any ideas on how to undo making my own comment an "answer" would be greatly appreciated. Sorry, just ******** move on my part.

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Answer 7

fox_m

Level 6

13,282 points

Nov 5, 2014 1:39 PM in response to dissidently

Don't worry about the points 😉 Apple's strategy is to tie Motion to Final Cut Pro. Everybody with FCP should have it! (It's to Apple's credit that they don't force you to buy it if you don't really want it.) It doesn't really require very much expertise to tweak the templates that come with it. With previous versions it was round tripping. With M5, it's the creation of reusable templates (create once - use everywhere). The Help documentation is fairly thorough and well presented, but can be a little "dry" in places. I tried using AE years ago—it just wasn't for me… but I think you might find that for 95% of your projects (at least) Motion would be your "go to" app. It's "fast" and easy to use. For a lot of my work, it has just out-and-out replaced Photoshop! And Illustrator. You already have a solid understanding of spatial relationships... Motion should be easy for you to adapt to. And you just can't beat the price for such a powerful piece of software.

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Answer 8

GFXZen

Level 4

1,997 points

Nov 6, 2014 12:09 AM in response to fox_m

For what it's worth, Ripple Training has some training focused on Motion for AE users.

http://www.rippletraining.com/categories/apple-pro-apps-tutorials/final-cut-stud io-tutorials/motion-for-after-effects-users.html

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Answer 9

dissidently Author

Level 1

5 points

Nov 6, 2014 1:32 AM in response to fox_m

Unfortunately I've just discovered the RAM Preview issues of Motion. That's a non-starter for me. I probably use the RAM Preview feature of AE more than anything else. Without those previews, constantly, it's impossible to gauge what I'm doing, how it feels, its audience perception/impact etc.

I do motion graphics mockups of UI dynamics, so there's no way I can tolerate not having a 60fps preview near instantly available, all the time, as fast as is realistically possible of the machine I'm on.

Rendering out to a file everytime in need of a preview, then quicktime viewing it from Finder (the seemingly suggested workaround to this abhorrent problem) just doesn't cut it. Way too many extra steps.

Absolutely stunned this issue hasn't been the first fix priority, and fixed in something like this. It gives me the impression that nobody making the software actually uses the software. Which is something I can say about many aspects of AE, as well.

Unfortunately I'm stuck on a Mac at the moment, so can't use my beloved 3ds Max for this project. Back to AE.

For anyone coming to this thread and considering using Motion over AE, consider this: MOTION... doesn't do stable frame rate previews, under ANY circumstances, on ANY machine, of ANY power or ANY amount of RAM.

In 2014. That's un-farken-believably poor form.

If you can live without accurate frame rate previews, then that's the kind of app Motion is, the one you can use for things where actual "motion" is not inherently important to the perception. And that's irony, I guess.

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