Bootcamp partition has disappeared after upgrade to Yosemite 10.10

Loner T wrote:

Csound1 wrote:

Then you should tell them, Apple.com/feedback

I have provided feedback and bug reports since the dawn of Mavericks. I did the same with Yosemite DP1-6. Is data loss Apple's favorite game? I am certain you are not trying to defend Apple, are you?

Can you point out where I defended them?

I said (and you are free to disagree) that Windows is "more reliable on a Windows machine". If you disagree with that I am astonished.

I think that the 'problem' is that Macs were built for OSX, Windows is merely a guest, an occasionally unruly guest at that.

Csound1 wrote:

I am certain you are not trying to defend Apple, are you?

Can you point out where I defended them?

I was asking a question, not accusing you of defending Apple.

Csound1 wrote:

I said (and you are free to disagree) that Windows is "more reliable on a Windows machine". If you disagree with that I am astonished.

The hardware for Windows (and the required WHQL compliance) is made by several manufacturers like, Sony, HP, Dell, Toshiba, Panasonic.

Apple is unique in that it builds its own HW/SW stack and does not allow its SW to run on non-Mac machines (in general, and despite Hackint0shes). Windows "machine" is a very broad term, given so many OEMs. It is stable on a Toshiba or a HP or a Sony. It is difficult to ask users like Texmurph to carry multiple pieces of equipment, especially for road warriors. Windows is fairly stable on the same Apple HW when used as a VM. The question that Texmurph is asking is why a similar lack of stability plagues Apple when they control the entire stack?

This is not a new venture for Apple. This has been there since the days of Windows XP. Perhaps Texmurph should consider VMs and look at compromises (like no direct access to the Apple HW) to be able to work with a single piece of computing equipment.

My position has always been the same, Windows on a Mac is more trouble than it is worth.

I need to use Excel, and I need VBA for it so it can only be a Windows version (the Mac version lacks VBA) so I run Windows, on a £200 Dell laptop with a copy of RDC running so I can use it on my Mac. Compared to buying a copy of Windows (I already own Excel licenses) and wasting so much time in order to get a reasonable installation (using BC) or a mediocre installation (using a VM) the Dell was almost as cheap and offers far more performance with Winodws than the Mac ever did. And it's just another network device as far as the Mac is concerned.

That way my time doesn't wasted with testdisk et al.

If you sit at desk in an office and do not travel, it is a good solution. There are other user profiles and software which is Windows only. You can potentially do the same when traveling via VPN and a remote desktop access.

Intel has two separate EFI specifications preUEFI and EFI 1.1 (used by Apple) do not mix well. Windows 7 has partial support for EFI, but W8.1 seems to be the first 'full' UEFI. MBR provided a route to support many different Windows implementations before the UEFI specification was fully incorporated into OSes. Newer Mac machines do support UEFI (post-2013 machines).

I run Windows via UEFI on a late 2013 rMBP. On a 2012 MBP, UEFI does not work. One potential solution I have suggested in my feedback and bug reports is to provide EFI updates for machines which are capable of running Yosemite to become UEFI-compliant so W8+ (and W10) can run native UEFI. I am uncertain if Apple has the motivation/resources to make such changes available to consumers.

So, does that mean that a Windows 8.1 install with BC could work without having an MBR partition? I have a 2012 macmini 6,1. If there was a Firmware update for it, would it be possible to have bootable Windows 8.1 and Yosemite on the same machine without using these MBR partitions? I have the latest firmware for the macmini 6.1 (EFI 1.7).

Since I have the latest OS versions and they both support GPT partitions bootable from EFI, I see no point in continuing to have these messy hybrid partitions which are prone to break at the first OS update.

I sit at a desk and prepare my show, then when the prep is over I no longer need Excel so just carry the usual MBP.

I try to avoid arriving at a venue unprepared. So I never need Windows when I am onsite.

The challenge with Yosemite is that it has started using a CoreStorage rather than JHFS+ volumes.

W8.1 can be installed without using BCA (but it still needs BC drivers which support the hardware).

1. You will need to create Free Space of the size you want Windows to be using Disk Utility.

2. Create the USB+ISO using BCA, but uncheck the 'Install Windows...' Option.

3. Boot from the USB using Alt and select the EFI Boot entry on the USB. On preUEFI HW (2012 and older), this method installs but cannot work, because it returns no bootable device error due to the presence of the split MSR/MSD partitions.

4. Let the W8.1 installer format the free space into MSR (Microsoft System Reserved - 128MB - GPT4 in the following layout) and MSD (rest of the Free Space - GPT5 in the following example)

5. You will have a pure GPT-only disk. There is no MBR, as the entire disk is encapsulated in a Protective MBR.

This is what the disk looks like on a 15" 2013 rMBP using W8.1 EFI.

gpt show: /dev/disk0: mediasize=500277790720; sectorsize=512; blocks=977105060

gpt show: /dev/disk0: PMBR at sector 0

gpt show: /dev/disk0: Pri GPT at sector 1

gpt show: /dev/disk0: Sec GPT at sector 977105059

start size index contents

0 1 PMBR

1 1 Pri GPT header

2 32 Pri GPT table

34 6

40 409600 1 GPT part - C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B

409640 487712920 2 GPT part - 48465300-0000-11AA-AA11-00306543ECAC

488122560 1269536 3 GPT part - 426F6F74-0000-11AA-AA11-00306543ECAC

489392096 32

489392128 262144 4 GPT part - E3C9E316-0B5C-4DB8-817D-F92DF00215AE

489654272 487450624 5 GPT part - EBD0A0A2-B9E5-4433-87C0-68B6B72699C7

977104896 131

977105027 32 Sec GPT table

977105059 1 Sec GPT header

Disk: /dev/disk0 geometry: 60821/255/63 [977105060 sectors]

Signature: 0xAA55

Starting Ending

#: id cyl hd sec - cyl hd sec [ start - size]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1: EE 1023 254 63 - 1023 254 63 [ 1 - 977105059] <Unknown ID>

2: 00 0 0 0 - 0 0 0 [ 0 - 0] unused

3: 00 0 0 0 - 0 0 0 [ 0 - 0] unused

4: 00 0 0 0 - 0 0 0 [ 0 - 0] unused

On preUEFI HW (2012 and older), this method installs but cannot work, because it returns no bootable device error due to the presence of the split MSR/MSD partitions.

So on a late 2012 macmini this method will install Windows 8.1 but it won't be bootable. And for this to work it would be necessary for Apple to make a new firmware update available which would include 2012 machines. Or is the pre-2013 hardware a problem too?

I have tested EFI-based installation on a 2012 MBP and a 2012 Mini. Neither work. The Hybrid MBR works. I can force the EFI installation, but I run into KVM and Audio driver issues.

Bootcamp is a good and golden thing.

I'm disinterested in anyone's opinion as to whether you should run windows on a Mac. I have been running Windows and OSX perfectly for years and years and years with great performance on a MacBook Air and a MacBook pro.

I am disinterested in any VM solution.

I am disinterested in knowing what UEFI, MBR, and MSD are all about. My hair is gray enough as it is.

I Just want Apple to fix their Yosemite / Bootcamp problem and wake me when it is over. I have confidence that they can get the job done.

Bootcamp is a good and golden thing.

If you need any help with workarounds to get Windows up and running, please post back, and the Community will help the best they can. Your PoV is understood and respected. I wish Apple would fix it quickly.

Loner T wrote:

I wish Apple would fix it quickly.

Can't argue with that, either fix it properly or (my preference) put an end to it once and for all. The current situation (old as it is) is a mess.