8 GB USB storage device, or external drive formatted as MS-DOS (FAT) to install the downloaded drivers.

Hi Loner T,

You seem to know much about bootcamp, and about the challenge of installing windows into a hard drive that is in the optical bay on a MBP.

Awhile back, I installed a 240GB SSD into my mainHD bay, and a 1Tb drive into my optical bay. It's a great system that way, but now I want to install windows. i don't use windows often, and don't want to use a virtual machine, as I'm concerned it will slow my I5 2.3 with 8Gb RAM.

I tried to use bootcamp to install windows 7 HP, and stumbled around with the 'black screen blinking cursor' for awhile, going down blind alleys, until I came to the support posts that say that bootcamp won't install into the HD in the optical bay, period.

OK, that explains the problem.

So one workaround that is oft-repeated, is to switch the 1Tb drive back into the main bay, install windows off a boot disc or USB, and then switch it back.

I'm not so confident about that process and don't want to mess around with it.

So I'm wondering to myself, can I put windows on to my 240 SSD, which is in my main HD bay? I probably have about 60-80Gb of space on it. Can I use Bootcamp to partition that, even though its got alot of other stuff in there, without messing up my OS and associated files. Do ALL my windows programs and files need to go in that partition, or can I install the operating system there, and use the other SATA hard drive that is in the optical bay (perhaps with a windows-compatible partition) to keep programs and files that I would use with windows? How much free space do I need to leave on the SSD, to make sure it keeps functioning properly?

thanks much!

Andrew

lsepcyeu wrote:

3. BCA copies ISO contents to USB.

from where this ISO may come from????

You buy it and download it from the Microsoft Store.

AlwaysLearning613 wrote:

until I came to the support posts that say that bootcamp won't install into the HD in the optical bay, period.

It can, but it requires either Hardware changes or significant amount of manipulation and using a commercial tool like Winclone.

So one workaround that is oft-repeated, is to switch the 1Tb drive back into the main bay, install windows off a boot disc or USB, and then switch it back.

I'm not so confident about that process and don't want to mess around with it.

This is by far the simplest solution, which requires some hardware work. One issue that I have seen in the past is moving the HDD back to Optibay and running into SATA speed issues, which are related to Apple implementation of the Optibay side of the SATA controller. Another approach is to merge the SSD/HDD combination into a DIY Fusion drive, which BCA will recognize (like an iMac/MacMini Fusion drive) and install Windows on the HDD part. This also has some challenges because the Optical drive is not available. Winclone is an option.

So I'm wondering to myself, can I put windows on to my 240 SSD, which is in my main HD bay? I probably have about 60-80Gb of space on it. Can I use Bootcamp to partition that, even though its got alot of other stuff in there, without messing up my OS and associated files. Do ALL my windows programs and files need to go in that partition, or can I install the operating system there, and use the other SATA hard drive that is in the optical bay (perhaps with a windows-compatible partition) to keep programs and files that I would use with windows? How much free space do I need to leave on the SSD, to make sure it keeps functioning properly?

On a 2012 Mini, I have a 256GB SSD, which is split in half, with both OSes installed on SSD. The OS X part of SSD and the HDD has been merged into a DIY Fusion drive. The second partition of the HDD was converted to a NTFS partition. I could have left it as FAT for a shared file system between the two OSes. The advantage with the Mini was that it was bootable from a USB and/or an external Optical Drive.

Thanks Loner T !

You said:

"On a 2012 Mini, I have a 256GB SSD, which is split in half, with both OSes installed on SSD. The OS X part of SSD and the HDD has been merged into a DIY Fusion drive. The second partition of the HDD was converted to a NTFS partition. I could have left it as FAT for a shared file system between the two OSes. The advantage with the Mini was that it was bootable from a USB and/or an external Optical Drive."

I have a few questions about that. I hope you can bear with me. I want to make the right choices here....

"The OS X part of SSD and the HDD has been merged into a DIY Fusion drive." So if I understand correctly, the 'merging into a DIY Fusion drive' is something I can do. After I install windows to the SSD, I can somehow 'fuse' the MAC portion of the SSD with some designated portion of the HD into a DIY Fusion drive, and thus MAC OS will "see" both drives as a fusion drive. Does that make it more efficient? Other advantages/disadvantages to doing that? Any suggestions about how to accomplish that?

"The second partition of the HDD was converted to a NTFS partition. I could have left it as FAT for a shared file system between the two OSes." So there is a choice point here that I should consider carefully.

Two questions about that. First is 'what are the implications?' and second is, 'how to do it?'

If I understand correctly, NTFS will allow windows to read/write the partition, but MAC will only be able to read, and not write to it. And if I want it to be flexible, and fully usable by MAC/Windows, it needs to be a FAT partition.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that converting to NTFS will allow booting from a USB and/or external optical drive?

If I were to make it a FAT partition, would Windows and MAC be able to share it freely, or does that create potential conflicts or other problems?

With either choice (i.e. FAT or NTFS) would I be able to install/use windows programs to those partitions, or does that all have to be on the SSD in the windows partition there?

How do I make the conversion? (presumably I do this after windows is installed to the SSD and after creating the DIY fusion drive for MAC from the SSD and a part of the HD?)

Any comments about my other practical newbie-user questions about using windows to put bootcamp on the SSD? (To review the Q's: Any issues with partitioning over a drive that is already in use? and How much free space do I need to leave on the SSD, to make sure it keeps functioning properly, for both operating systems?)

Thanks again

Andrew🙂

1. Install OSX on SSD.

2. Use BCA to split SSD and Install Windows. Test and Verify.

3. Use Disk Utility to split HDD into two parts.

4. Use diskutil cs create using the OS X SSD slice (usually disk0s2) and HDD Slice 2 (disk1s2).

5. Format HDD part 2 (usually disk1s3) to FAT. Convert it to NTFS, if desired after booting into Windows and using Windows formatter. For shared access, leave it as FAT. Be aware of the FAT 2TB limit. This will become drive D or E based on whether you have Yosemite or an older version of OS X. You can install anything you want on this E drive like a normal NTFS partition.

I suggest 120GB each for OS X and Windows given your SSD size.

Can I suggest you start here http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201468 and then ask more specific questions?

Loner T

Thanks so much for the practical walkthrough. That's a huge help.

Two questions persist:

1. you said, "4. Use diskutil cs create using the OS X SSD slice (usually disk0s2) and HDD Slice 2 (disk1s2)".

I looked in disk utility and didn't see a ' cs create' option. Am I missing something or looking in the wrong place? (I'm running 10.8.5).

2. I'm still not clear on the pros and cons of NTFS vs FAT in this situation. Can you elaborate a bit?

Thank you

Andrew

To create a CoreStorage (aka CS) volume, it can be done using

diskutil cs create

Usage: diskutil coreStorage create lvgName

MountPoint|DiskIdentifier|DeviceNode ...

Create a CoreStorage logical volume group from one or more disks.

The specified disks will become the initial set of PVs.

All existing data on the drive will be lost.

Ownership of the affected disks is required.

Example: diskutil coreStorage create MyLVG disk1

Adding a Disk uses

diskutil cs addDisk

Usage: diskutil coreStorage addDisk lvgUUID NewMemberDeviceName

Add a new physical volume to a CoreStorage logical volume group.

Ownership of the affected disks is required.

Example: diskutil coreStorage addDisk

11111111-2222-3333-4444-555555555555 disk4s2

Converting an existing JHFS+ to CS volume

diskutil cs convert

Usage: diskutil coreStorage convert

MountPoint|DiskIdentifier|DeviceNode

[-stdinpassphrase | -passphrase [passphrase]]

Convert a regular JHFS+ partition into a CoreStorage logical volume.

The file system must be mounted and resizable (i.e. Journaled HFS+).

Ownership of the affected disk is required.

You can either create a CS volume first, then install OS X, or use convert after OS X is installed.

I suggest looking at https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/ man8/diskutil.8.html

NTFS is a better file system, then FAT, but FAT is ubiquitous, while NTFS is confined to Windows. There are OpenSource and commercial products which allow access to NTFS/HFS+ (like NTFS-3g, Tuxera, Paragon, etc.). CoreStorage is a Logical Volume Manager, which Linux and Windows (LSM) have had for some time. Many OSes have had RAID support for a while. The decision for a filesystem is driven by considerations of performance, portability, ease of management, robustness, etc. NTFS should suffice for your desktop/laptop needs. If you want portability as more important then robustness, use FAT.

Loner T

Thanks again for all the detail.

Regarding using "diskutil cs create"

It's way over my head. And as a non-computer guy, I don't see myself learning how to do this.

If I understand correctly, the value of doing that is that my computer will see one DIY fusion drive and it might be a bit more efficient, and I don't have to worry about whether things are on the SSD or the HD, because it will be one unit.

Are there other advantages that I'm not aware of?

Is this something you can do for me remotely, and I'll pay for your time/skill? How much would it cost?

It sounds like the alternative is to just partition the SSD and install windows with bootcamp. And then also partition the HD with diskutil and convert one partition to NTFS, also with diskutil. And from there, MAC would be able to use the remaining OS formated chunk of HD, and be able to recognize/read but not write stuff to the NTFS part of the HD. And that's workable, but not as optimal as the fusion drive setup.

Is that right?

thanks

AlwaysLearning613 wrote:

Regarding using "diskutil cs create"

It's way over my head. And as a non-computer guy, I don't see myself learning how to do this.

If I understand correctly, the value of doing that is that my computer will see one DIY fusion drive and it might be a bit more efficient, and I don't have to worry about whether things are on the SSD or the HD, because it will be one unit.

Are there other advantages that I'm not aware of?

Is this something you can do for me remotely, and I'll pay for your time/skill? How much would it cost?

Never offer access to your computers or money to anyone on an Internet forum. It is for you own safety.

I can walk you through detailed steps, and help address any issues.

You can add external removable media to a LV. It can expand and contract and provide better IO performance over standard SSD or HDD. It provides a two-tier storage which is driven by usage patterns.

It sounds like the alternative is to just partition the SSD and install windows with bootcamp. And then also partition the HD with diskutil and convert one partition to NTFS, also with diskutil. And from there, MAC would be able to use the remaining OS formated chunk of HD, and be able to recognize/read but not write stuff to the NTFS part of the HD. And that's workable, but not as optimal as the fusion drive setup.

Is that right?

If you can get all this done by yourself, the Fusion drive can be created in 10 minutes or less using command line commands based on output that you can provide. There is no need to pay anyone.

Thanks for your concern and cautions.

"You can add external removable media to a LV" what's an LV?"

It sounds like the alternative is to just partition the SSD and install windows with bootcamp. And then also partition the HD with diskutil and convert one partition to NTFS, also with diskutil. And from there, MAC would be able to use the remaining OS formated chunk of HD, and be able to recognize/read but not write stuff to the NTFS part of the HD. And that's workable, but not as optimal as the fusion drive setup.

Is that right?

"If you can get all this done by yourself, the Fusion drive can be created in 10 minutes or less using command line commands based on output that you can provide. There is no need to pay anyone."

OK. I appreciate that. I think I can do the stuff described above on my own this evening.

And your suggestion is to do that stuff in the box above first, and then the fusion drive can be created. So maybe I should install windows and partition the HD with part remaining MAC and part NTFS; and then ask what's next? The detailed instructions about using 'diskutil cs create...' was like a foreign language to me. I wouldn't know where to start doing that.

What would be your suggestion about how to proceed?

If you want both OSes on SSD, then

1. Remove HDD from Optibay. Re-install Optical drive.

2. Install OSX.

3. Use BCA and install Windows on SSD.

4. Remove Optical Drive, and re-install HDD.

5. Split the HDD via Disk Utility into two partitions.

6. Create a CS volume (LV = Logical Volume) if not already done by OS X (Yosemite will create a single-disk CS volume).

7. Add HDD Part1 to CS volume.

8. Format HDD Part 2 to FAT/NTFS as you see fit.

Hi Thanks for your response.

OK, I'm confused now.

My understanding from our previous message thread(and other online stuff) is that BCA won't install windows into the HD that is in the optical drive.

That is the whole reason, in my mind, to install windows into the SDD, which is in the main HD bay. So I don't have to mess around with swapping drives.

I already have OSX on the SDD.

I have an external optical drive with a Windows ISO file. I also have Windows ISO file and the BCA support software on a USB drive.

So why do I need to mess around with swapping drives?

Can't BCA install windows into the SDD that is in the main HD bay? Do I need to have an optical drive in the computer in order to do that?

In step 6 you say to create a CS volume. I don't know what that is, and don't know how to do that. I'm running 10.8.5, not yosemite.

Thanks much