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Converter Question?

I am considering purchasing a Canopus AVDC 110 to use with old VHS tapes and FCP 10.0.9. I am wondering if there is enough of a difference from using a "pass through" approach with one of my old mini cassette video cameras. I don't expect the quality to improve that much but am hoping that the Canopus AVDC 110 might better deal with tracking issues with the VHS tape. In addition, would I be able to work directly with FCP 10.0.9 and the conversion from the AVDC 110? I guess I am wondering if the cost of the AVDC 110 is worth giving up on the "pass through" approach using the mini cassette video camera? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Mac OS X (10.7.5), MacPro Dual-Core, 2.66 GHz

Posted on Feb 24, 2015 5:58 PM

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17 replies

Feb 24, 2015 8:02 PM in response to marti153

The Canopus products actually do improve the video quality, significantly, over the "USB dongle) video capture devices available (i.e., EyeTV, etc.) First, they stabilize the image (if possible — some tracking issues are incurable) Second, they provide timecode. Third, they improve the dynamic range in color (makes faded video look better.) I recovered this clip from a VHS tape that was over 20 years old at the time using the ADVC 55: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_MgMyeWNTY -- it's been further cleaned up with some "tricks" but you should get an idea how well the ADVC 55 did. The ADVC devices are Firewire and if I remember correctly (and I probably don't,) FCPX will recognize a Firewire video device (usually a camcorder, but the ADVC should appear in the list) for a direct import.


However, you might want to consider moving forward into the future. The Blackmagic Design Ultrastudio Mini Recorder (SDI / HDMI in, Thunderbolt out connection) or the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle (for USB3 if you don't have Thunderbolt). Both units are (currently) less than the ADVC 110, both also work with SD and HD media and both units will do automatic SD to HD up conversion (the Canopus units are SD to SD only). These units are NOT plug'n'play... you have to install drivers (probably just the Desktop Video software -- includes Media Express which can be used for "Log and Transfer" for importing into FCPX. You MUST also go into System Preferences and set up the media inputs you will be using with your unit after installing the drivers.)


I don't know if the Blackmagic equipment handles stabilizing old tapes, I made all my copies years ago with the Canopus equipment. I have none of it left to test with the Blackmagic (Mini Recorder) I recently purchased. From reviews I've read, it seems that the Blackmagic equipment does an outstanding job... I just can't verify that for you.



[*Blackmagic sends a disc with ALL their software for all their products... it's not necessary to install everything.]


HTH

Feb 25, 2015 3:09 AM in response to fox_m

Thank you for the very helpful suggestions! I am wondering if the Blackmagic Shuttle would work with my MacPro 1,1 Dual-Core, 2.66 GHz. Would I have to purchase the suggested DP USB 3.0 4-Port PCIe i/e Adapter Card if I don't have a USB 3 port? In addition, while the Ultrastudio sells for less than the Canopus, the Shuttle does not on the sources that I checked out. I agree with your moving into the future suggestion and am looking into purchasing a new iMac this year so it is coming down to the Canopus vs the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle. If the Shuttle would work with my current no USB 3 port MacPro without having to purchase the USB 3 adapter card then I would go that route because I could still use it with the new iMac. I am trying to hold down my investment in my "left behind" Mac Pro at this point.



Model Name: Mac Pro

Model Identifier: Ma

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Model Name: Mac Pro

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Feb 25, 2015 3:16 PM in response to marti153

I've written about three different responses and deleted them all...


Your current Mac can't handle the Blackmagic devices (based on my research). Even with a USB 3 card, I don't think OSX 10.7 is supported any longer and I believe 10.7 is the max OS you can use on that machine.


If you cannot wait: the ADVC 110 will be your best investment at this point in time. You will definitely be able to convert your tapes with this item — to 720x480 DV. Unfortunately, as soon as you upgrade to the iMac, you will lose all Firewire connections (there is a Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 converter available and you'll need the stepdown FW400 converter, and possible the power supply if the power isn't supplied by the TB - FW800 cable) and you will probably lose use of this device without purchasing an external power supply.


There is also much more to think about even with a new iMac.


Yes, you will need at least USB 3 to use the Shuttle and OSX 10.8 or better (probably at least 10.9). If you're going to wait, try to go with the Thunderbolt options.


The other side of the story is that you will also need fast storage in order to capture your video. For SD, you can get away with a "fast" Firewire 800, but you will need something much faster for HD. A standard HD as an internal drive is not going to be fast enough. Research how fast the Fusion drive is — it might be fast enough. I can't recommend an SSD because they're just simply not large enough for my liking.


I built a drive for use with capture: I bought a Crucial M500 SSD drive and put it in an OWC 2.5" drive enclosure with USB3/FW800 connections. I'm getting write speeds of 324MB/s (read @ 400MB/s), which is fast enough for 2K (1556@25fps) but not 1080p60 (10-bit RGB 4-4-4). It was more cost effective than a traditional RAID and if I had a Thunderbolt enclosure (which is much pricier) I could get much better read/write speeds.


[*prices (amazon)

OWC Mercury On-the-go Pro USB 3/Firewire enclosure $55

an alternative type of "enclosure" : KDLinks USB3 / eSATA docking station ($37)

Crucial 480GB SSD 2.5in $180

]



Wait until you get all the hardware in place. You may only have the one chance to recover those tapes (particularly the older ones.) Do it right and you won't be disappointed.


One more thing: if any of your videos are copy protected, you will need to buy a "video stabilizer" to bypass the CP. I personally believe that if you legally purchased the videotape, you have the right to back it up (I am currently supported by the Supreme Court in this opinion; but that could change at any time). If you buy the Blackmagic Mini Recorder (and make sure it's the recorder and NOT it's nearly identical "Monitor") you can get an AV to HDMI converter (from < $20 to about $50 - look for sales) to connect to the HDMI input of the unit.


If all of this is overwhelming, you might want to consider a different way to convert your videotapes, which is to buy a set-top box to do it for you. It will be considerably less work. At this time, there is still a cost effective solution to this and that is a "combination VCR DVD recorder" (the one I linked you to is one of the LAST reasonably priced units.) You will need DVD-R blank disks (100 for ~ $25.) Consider this also: no new Macs have optical drives anymore. Even DVD is passing into history.


Good luck with your project!

Feb 25, 2015 5:28 PM in response to fox_m

Hey fox_m,


Your reply is what makes this site so fantastic for all users! I did find out during the day that my MacPro Desktop (2007) is something of a dinosaur when it comes to matching today's hardware with yesterday's classics. My MacPro still runs great but you are right in mentioning that my machine is frozen in time (OS 10.7) when it comes to updating so that I could take advantage of the current offerings (Yosemite, etc). The Blackmagic tools will not work with my MacPro which means that I am locked into Canopus ADVC 110 which appears to be a good solution for my current needs. But, I know that I will be upgrading to an iMac at some point during the year and that would mean the Blackmagic Thunderbolt would be a good future solution. I really don't care to buy both so I think I am going with the Canopus and hope that my MacPro continues to run smoothly for another eight years. None of this roadblock is new. I am running in to upgrading the 2007 MacPro barriers with nearly all of today's hardware and software. Some quick responses to your comments:


1. All of the old VHS video is home video of our kids growing up so no problems with copyright

2. I do have a combination VCR/DVD (Sony) transfer recorder but the quality is really poor because it doesn't handle tracking very well

3. the info on storage was very useful

4. I printed out your response for future reference

5. I will be using your suggestions dated:

fox_mJul 13, 2014 3:47 PM Re: Fusion? Graphics Card? Processor? Need help prioritizing for video editing!

Re: Fusion? Graphics Card? Processor? Need help prioritizing for video editing!in response to jrc362 |

when I go to the Apple Store to purchase that iMac. Again, thank you for all of your help!

Feb 26, 2015 12:31 AM in response to marti153

Some words of doom and gloom . . .


Why are you capturing old VHS tapes?


Is it for a competition or money making enterprise where only the highest quality will be acceptable or is it simply as an archive for family members?


If the latter, and if your family etc. is anything like mine, they will either never watch them or else not care a d.a.m.n about the quality as long as they can distinguish "Uncle Fred" getting up to his embarrassing antics etc. . . . I can't count the number of times I've stressed myself out in order to produce superior results only to have family and friends completely oblivious to or unconcerned about the quality.


Don't forget that for those of us who do value sharp, bright, naturally coloured images, watching even the best VHS tapes can come as a severe shock to the system.


On a practical note, a couple of years ago I copied a batch of VHS tapes to DV using a Datavideo DAC100 which is very similar to the Canopus.


There were a few sections of the tapes that the DAC100 either could not capture or could not capture properly.


I was about to give up on these sections when I remembered my old Canon HV20 could convert analogue to DV, so without holding out much hope I gave it a try and to my amazement, the camera was able to capture the tricky tapes well.


In fact the camera appeared to be at least as good or even better than the purpose-built DAC100 especially with problem tapes.

Feb 26, 2015 2:53 AM in response to Ian R. Brown

Ian,

I have certainly felt your pain with certain relatives who do not fully appreciate the effort one puts into any project. But, when it comes to our children who does not want the best for them! In addition, I do have many customers who bring their VHS tapes from that long ago dinosaur age who want them to look as good as today's HD. They just don't hear or understand that it is impossible to get there. They usually are willing to accept the rather smudgy picture quality which I am hoping to improve a bit. I have used your Canon camera "pass through" approach as well and it does work but if I can improve the tracking and picture quality just a bit, why not go for it and maybe, the disappointed looks from some customers won't show as much. Thank you for your insights!

Mar 2, 2015 1:53 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

I raised my eyebrows when I read that passing through the camera doesn't work with FCP X but last Friday I discovered it really didn't!


Out of the blue I decided to copy a video on a 20 year old VHS tape using my DAC100.


There must have been some problems with the tape because it played perfectly going on to the TV but when I captured it, the video kept stopping for a second or so every now and again leaving me with a lot of separate clips with a few seconds missing between them.


I decided to use my Canon HV20 and although the video appeared in the Import window, FCP X was unable to capture it.


So I finished the capture with legacy FCP and got everything in one long clip . . . . the only snag I noticed was that on a few scenes there appeared to be some intermittent black flyback lines.


So why can't FCP X capture video passing through the camera?


I would have thought that the DAC100 and HV20 were doing the same thing?


Obviously not quite.

Mar 2, 2015 3:18 AM in response to Ian R. Brown

Hi Ian,

Like you, I had to use Legacy FCP (7) to capture from VHS tape using the "pass through" method with a Canon Z50 and the result was one long clip. In addition, I got the "intermittent black flyback lines" on each of the captured three VHS sequences. If I went back and recaptured just those "intermittent black flyback lines" scenes the capture came out perfect. It happened at two or three points on each of the three VHS tapes that I was working with at the time. I chalked it up to working with very old VHS tape. I did try iMovie and it did capture but I didn't care for the quality or options for editing the captured clip. Not sure but I believe that iMovie had trouble with the sound as well. The shadow of Final Cut Pro 7 comes through again. But, I digress!

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