G4 Quicksilver freezes at desktop screen requiring PRAM reset.

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Level 1

27 points

G4 Quicksilver freezes at desktop screen requiring PRAM reset.

Hi,

I recently got a used G4 dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver with two internal hard drives(80 & 40GB). I made some mistakes when I first received it, being used to running OS 9 on a blueberry G3 with one hard drive, and now it frequently freezes after a cold start at the desktop screen.
When I first got it, it had two HDs installed. The slave HD had OS 9.2.2 loaded on it and the master had OSX 10.4.7. Unfortunately, being used to OS9 right away I tried to open an application (Internet Explorer) on the OS 9(slave) hard drive from the desk top while running the OSX hard drive(master HD). As a result, the computer sarted opening a huge file.
My wife came home for luch and I needed to leave. I tried to stop the program, I couldn't. I tried to shut down the computer, it wouldn't. So, I unplugged the computer. Second mistake.
When I got home I couldn't turn the computer on. With some research I discovered how to reset the PMU. That did it.
Unfortunately, I still hadn't learned to not try to open one hard drive while running the other without selecting it as a startup item. As a result, late that night I tried a half dozen more times to open an application on the OS 9 (slave) hard drive while not understanding that I was running the master HD. All with the same result. It took 15 minutes to open ending with a text block about the "21 day trial period for IPNetSentry" having expired then total lock up. Then I restarted and repeated the same mistake. The only thing that stopped me was that it was 2:30 in the morning. Sounds pretty stupid now. I then tried to find all the threads of this IPNet Sentry and trash them.
The next morning my current problem seemed to begin. The screen freezes once I get to the desktop screen. I can reset the PRAM and all is fine again until the next time I turn the computer off and start it up again. It doesn't happen every time. It will happen for a few days, go away then after a week or so start acting up again. I also noticed that it doesn't lock up when I use restart, only when it is all the way off and turned on again.
Here's what I have done to try to resolve the problem. I scrubbed both hard drives using the restore software, and I replaced the PRAM or back up battery. The apple hardware test disk passes everything.
One more big clue. When I was reloading the restore software on the master HD I got the messages "!Could not restore the restricted-segment image. Reading block 00174A440." and then "The restore failed. The volume 'MacIntosh HD' may be unusable." Another time the first text block was the same except the reading block was 002141B0. Major bummer. It took four or five tries before I get get all five of the restore disks to install.
In another forum I found someone else with a similar message and a responder said that the hard drive may have gotten scratched. His thinking was that in trying to open a big file (in this case, the application on the slave HD while running the master HD) that the memory got used up and spilled into virtual memory and somehow scratched the master HD.
If anyone has any ideas of things to try before I go out and by another hard drive I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

Posted on Oct 13, 2006 12:51 PM

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Answer 1

Rufus

Level 3

630 points

Oct 13, 2006 1:58 PM in response to G4RAY

I was going to suggest reinstalling a fresh system, but you beat me to it.
The one thing I'm a bit unclear about is what do you mean by "scrubbing" the HD. Did you simply erase the drive and reinstall the software? Did you reformat the drive?? Since you have nothing to loose at this point, you should reformat both drives and reinstall everything again. I think one of your drives is either corrupt or dying. Reformating will either fix the corruption or confirm bad blocks. If bad blocks are found you will need to replace the faulty drive.

PS: You should try to simplify your life and move completely to OSX asap. I loved OS9 in it's day, but now avoid running at all.

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Answer 2

G4RAY Author

Level 1

27 points

Oct 13, 2006 2:40 PM in response to Rufus

Thanks for the reply!
By "scrubbing" I mean that I erased the drives and installed the restore software that came with the computer. I did not reformat them. How do I reformat them?
I agree with your suggestion of getting rid of OS 9. As soon as I get a newer version of Photoshop I will get rid of it.
Thanks again.

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

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Answer 3

G4RAY Author

Level 1

27 points

Oct 15, 2006 7:44 PM in response to G4RAY

One more note. When the computer freezes at the desktop screen, the cursor is always in the upper left corner. Does that mean anything?

If I do have to replace my 80 GB hard drive, does anyone have any recommendations for what would be a good replacement?

Thanks for the help!

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

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Answer 4

Oct 16, 2006 7:46 AM in response to G4RAY

Hi, G4RAY!

Welcome to the Apple Discussions!

You might seriously consider "zeroing" the startup drive, instead of doing a simple erase and install. In the course of overwriting zeros, the process will also map out any bad sectors/blocks which might be present on the drive, precluding their use and insuring against data corruption due to bad blocks. You can access this Disk Utility option by clicking on the "Security options..." button in the Erase window and checking the option there to write zeros to the drive. This will take a few hours to run on an 80GB drive. When finished, format using Mac OS Extended format and reinstall.

If you'd feel more comfortable with a new hard drive, then an ATA drive from any of the major manufacturers should serve you well. Check to insure that your QS Mac's Boot ROM version is 4.3.3f2, as indicated in the OS X System Profiler in the Hardware Overview section. This firmware version allows for the full use of any size ATA drive mounted internally when formatted with the Disk Utility version contained in OS X 10.2 or later. (Any other QS Boot ROM version limits the usable space on a drive attached to the logic board bus to 128GB.)

I'd shop online for a deal on a large drive, which today may even be less expensive than some smaller drives. Moreover, they're a much better value in terms of cost per GB. Try the mass marketer sites like Circuit City, Best Buy, CompUSA, Tiger Direct, Newegg, or Frye's. Here's a 250GB Seagate for $60 after a $20 rebate, for example. Whatever drive you choose, be certain that it's not a SATA or SCSI drive or you won't be able to use it as a direct replacement without buying a controller card. You're looking for an ATA drive, which may also be commonly referred to as a PATA, IDE, EIDE, or Ultra-ATA drive.

Gary

1GHz DP G4 Quicksilver 2002, 400MHz B&W rev.2 G3, Mac SE30 Mac OS X (10.4.5) 5G iPod, Epson 2200 & R300 & LW Select 360 Printers, Epson 3200 Scanner

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Answer 5

G4RAY Author

Level 1

27 points

Oct 16, 2006 8:25 AM in response to Majordadusma

Fantastic! Thanks for the help!

The guy I bought the computer just recommended using Appe's first aid software to check the drives. Sound reasonable? Or should I go ahead and "zero" them?

Thanks!

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

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Answer 6

Oct 16, 2006 11:43 AM in response to G4RAY

G4RAY,

I would zero and start over, seeing that you ran into problems with the attempted restore you did. I personally wouldn't trust in the integrity of the files from the install you struggled through. Moreover, if you do have a drive block issue, only a zero will map out the bad blocks.

If you do run First Aid on the Tiger volume, insure that you use the Tiger version of Disk Utility to run Repair Disk. The OS 9 version and OS X versions prior to OS X 10.3.9 do not play well with Tiger and should not be used on a 10.4.x volume. You'll have to boot to the Tiger install disc to run it on your startup volume. While you're there, run the Repair Permissions option as well.

Gary

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Answer 7

G4RAY Author

Level 1

27 points

Oct 16, 2006 12:15 PM in response to Majordadusma

Thanks again for the help! I ran the Disk Utility from the Tiger OSX install disk. Drives check out, but like you I am suspicious.
I also checked on the prices of internal drives from the sources you noted. Will most likely got that route one way or another since they are so cheap.
So, it sounds like you are saying that the Ultra ATA-100 will work in my machine. I checked and I have Boot ROM Version 4.3.3f2. Does that mean I can exceed the 128GB level for an internal hard drive? At these prices it seems like a no brainer. I might even remove or upgrade my slave drive as well. Any issues there? Do I use the cables I already have to connect?
By the way who makes the best RAM? May as well give that a boost while I am at it.
Thanks a million!

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

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Answer 8

Oct 17, 2006 6:59 AM in response to G4RAY

G4RAY,

So, it sounds like you are saying that the Ultra ATA-100 will work in my machine.

Yes, an Ultra ATA-100 or Ultra ATA-133 hard drive should work just fine, and your G4 does not have a 128GB size limitation so you can use any size you desire as long as you format the drive with OS X 10.2 or a later version of OS X Disk Utility. There's no real practical performance difference between using an ATA-100 versus ATA-133 drive with the drive bus on your Mac. One thing that does help drive performance, however, is the drive buffer size. Given the choice, get a drive with an 8MB buffer over one with a 2MB buffer. If you will be looking in the 300GB and larger range, some drives are available with a 16MB buffer.

A new drive typically comes with a new 80-wire, 40-pin, Ultra DMA ribbon cable; drive pin jumpers, and a set of mounting screws. I'd use the new cable and jumper the drives as master and slave. You should have no issues with new slave drive of any size, either. Also, with a two-drive setup on a single ribbon cable, it does not matter which drive is connected to the inline or end connector, as long as one is jumpered as master and the other as slave.

Crucial arguably produces the highest quality RAM, although it's pricey. I've been using RAM from OWC and Kingston without issue. Regardless of where you might decide to get more RAM, I'd suggest doing hardware additions in phases, rather than all at once. It gives one an opportunity to test the configuration before making the next addition; and if there's a problem, it's often much easier to pinpoint. I'd straighten out my drive issues, run the Mac for a couple of weeks, then order/install new RAM, for example.

BTW - If you do get a new drive(s) and need some help with drive pin settings, or perhaps might be looking for some tips on setting them up with a backup plan, there are plenty of folks here who can offer helpful advice.

Gary

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Answer 9

G4RAY Author

Level 1

27 points

Oct 17, 2006 8:25 AM in response to Majordadusma

Too cool! Big thanks!

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Answer 10

Oct 17, 2006 8:50 AM in response to G4RAY

Your welcome, G4RAY.

Gary

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Answer 11

G4RAY Author

Level 1

27 points

Oct 18, 2006 8:11 AM in response to Majordadusma

Hi Gary, I am about to buy a couple of Seagate hard drives, but noticed that they are OEM drives and that they do not include hardware such as cables, screws, etc. Can't I just reuse the old hardware? I also noticed that they don't specify the size. Are hard drives a standard physical size? Thanks again.

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

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Answer 12

Oct 18, 2006 8:50 AM in response to G4RAY

G4RAY,

You want standard-sized 3.5" drives, as opposed to smaller, 2.5" laptop drives. Yes, you may use your existing hardware & cables. If you want, post a link to what you're looking at and one of us here can confirm your choice(s).

Gary

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Answer 13

G4RAY Author

Level 1

27 points

Oct 19, 2006 8:10 AM in response to Majordadusma

Hey Gary,
Thanks for all the help. The drive I was looking at is the Seagate/250GB/7200/8MB/ATA-100/OEM/Hard Drive at Tiger Direct. The item number is THD-250A2.
It looks like the link is http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=21431 05&Catld=134.
Thanks again for all your help!

G4 Dual 1 GHZ Quicksilver Mac OS X (10.4.8) 80GB HD + 40 GB HD

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Answer 14

Oct 20, 2006 12:25 AM in response to G4RAY

G4RAY,

That should work just fine. Sorry it took this long to get back to you.

Gary

ps: In case you may be interested, the Best Buy in Asheville has a 120GB Seagate advertised for $50 with no rebate requirement. Sale ends Saturday.

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Answer 15

Oct 20, 2006 12:27 AM in response to G4RAY

G4RAY,

That should work just fine. Sorry it took this long to get back to you.

Gary

ps: In case you might be interested, the Best Buy in Asheville has a 120GB Seagate advertised for $50 with no rebate requirement. Sale ends Saturday. The 250GB Seagate you're looking at is a better deal, though.

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