GPS data not available to apps after iOS 8.3 update

I wouldn’t dream of Jail Breaking my Apple anything, this is
not jail breaking! If it were and I had done it do you think I would put it on
here where I am registered. No problem with my 2 iPads or my wife’s since going
back to 8.2.

Apple don’t want to help so I’m helping myself. If you have
money to burn then go ahead and buy another GPS that works! I don’t! Retired!

Easy Tiger..... I wasn't dropping a dime on anyone here. Whoa!!!!

In a nutshell.... I am not saying that this IS a jailbreak. I am saying that there are qualities about this that seem a bit off. To quote myself from my original post...

...This link appears to be a quasi-jailbreak. For security reasons, I wiped the iPad and reinstalled 8.3. From Apple. If someone else wants to jailbreak, go for it. It's just not my cup of tea...

I used the term "quasi" jailbreak... quasi = resembling, seeming, virtual, but not actual

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quasi?s=t

I didn't like what I was seeing in the storage manager. Very odd files.

I was basically saying that it looks like poop, and smells like poop, and I am not sure if it's "poop".

I didn't want someone to unintentionally download something that they didn't intend to get, IF it actually was NOT legit.

Hence my statement "It's not my cup of tea"

Meaning I didn't like what I saw. I Was NOT accusing you of INTENTIONALLY jailbreaking. Was just trying to warn others of the possibility of accidentally doing so, inadvertently.

Also I am not "burning" money. I am purchasing a product that I believe will be safer and better functioning.

Looks like this problem is not going to go away any time soon. Fingers seem to be pointing both ways between Apple and the external GPS companies. As with all these things, I suspect that they share the blame. Yes it was Apple's IOS 8.3 that we are all shouting about, but if other external GPS units are still working, it rather suggests that there is aLeo a device software problem too. Meanwhile, whilst Apple et al are sitting and glaring at each other, we customers all sit here and fume. Somehow rolling back an update doesn't feel right. Most of us use our Apple devices for many other things in addition to flying, and if Apple issue an update then it has to be for a reason and not updating or rolling back means that we miss out on those benefits. If the update is just to keep Apple Watch owners happy, then I don't need it. But if it has other benefits, including security fixes, then I want it. And if the Microsoft and Apple geeks can screw up an update, and we know that they certainly can, then I for one can easily screw up a roll back. Moreover, I doubt that the eggheads at Apple ever thought that we mere mortals might ever roll back an update, so heaven knows what junk we might pick up in doing so. I am also more than capable of messing up my computer without the help of ugly roll back files in my registry. The option of updating my GLO firmware is also denied to me because my GLO refuses to talk to the Garmin WebUpdater. I've tried it on my Windows 7 PC and laptop and on my Windows 8 laptop, but whilst it charges nicely, my computers refuse to "See" it. So that leaves me with my Bad Elf Plug In, which I bought in case I had a Bluetooth problem with my GLO And which is working perfectly. A very wise purchase as it turns out. But, even though it wasn't cheap, it seemed good risk mitigation and excellent value considering the benefits of having GPS in the cockpit and, compared to an hour's flying, it has proven to be money (very) well spent. The alternative would be to revert to map and stopwatch, which we are all supposed to be proficient at using, but the UK airspace is very crowded and it is all too easy to unintentionally infringe controlled airspace. So £100 to stay safe is well worth it. Nevertheless, when I look at my expensive GLO just sitting there impotent in my Nav Bag, I do wonder how Apple and Garmin can get away with it. They are probably protected by pages of 3pt small print, but I would gladly chip in a few pounds if a lawyer would dust down their volume of Consumer Rights and make these companies more accountable to their customers.

I sent an email to Dual's Customer Service who promptly replied. I had asked them straight out whether this was a problem caused by Dual not updating their hardware (firmware) to allow for Apple changes in 8.3 that had been previously advised to developers. This is the response that I got:

"Apple has acknowledged to us [DUAL] that Bluetooth GPS support in iOS 8.3 is broken."

This report may only be from one side but Apple has been deafeningly quiet on the matter, To my way of thinking, if it really wasn't broken (by Apple), I'm sure they'd be shouting from the rooftops rather than cop the abuse they are copping (online) from a great number of very frustrated customers.

I've been in computing since the mid 1960's and have seen it all.Due to the veil of secrecy Apple operates with I won't attempt a rollback to 8.2 and will wait, very impatiently, for 8.3.1 or whatever it is that they come up with to fix this mess.

I can afford to do that as I have two iPads one WiFi only and the other WiFi + Cell (and an iPhone that can run my Nav App) . I went to that extreme level of redundancy because I don't believe a solo pilot should have his head in a map while at altitude. And the thought of drawing lines and stuffing about with a ruler and a wizz wheel is my idea of situational awareness abandoned. I still take a paper copy of my flight plan and can fly by the (crappy) compass and timer but it is a very second rate substitute to a functioning GPS - especially if you are in an area with multiple control zones and steps and you need to be super accurate with your navigation.

Thanks, PilotDon! That's consistent with what others have been saying (other than Apple, of course, which remains the Great Stone Face) 🙂

I could have tried to rely on my internal GPS (I have the iPad Air WiFi + Cell), but have found it to be unreliable under the cockpit canopy. Also, my XGPS170 also carries the ADS-B information via Bluetooth.

Call me impatient, but I'm fairly computer savvy and only had minor apprehension about reinstalling the 8.2 firmware until things shake out. Once they do, I'll wait a respectful month (this time -- still bruised from kicking myself over upgrading so quickly to 8.3; lesson re-learned) and then update to the latest Apple iOS. I respect those who choose not to do that, too.

I always carry an old paper charts and an old Garmin 196 with me for a back-up, but admit that the iPad + FlyQ + XPGS170 have spoiled me, not to mention saved me a ton of money.

Downgrading to 8.2 from 8.3 isn't Jailbreaking. The list of Apple approved ios releases for your iDevice is listed here.

http://api.ineal.me/tss/status

You will notice that 8.2 is still listed. Downgrade asap. Must be a serious bug or serious complainer to keep Apple letting you downgrade to 8.2 for so long.

Robert

I Don't have any issue with using 8.2, as you stated, Apple is still signing it.

My issue is having to download the script for 8.2 on one of the 50 websites that offer the download. The problem is that you are downloading the script for 8.2 from a third party website. Not Apple. These third parties can embed any malware that they want inside the script. In fact, after finding some very strange files written into my iPad documents (that I could not keep deleted), I highly suspected this to be third party malware. It behaved as such(although unconfirmed).

While the 8.2 downgrade may not be "jail broke", it, in fact, is from a third party that can modify the script however they so choose. Definitely not worth the potential risk , in my opinion.

BEtter get updates solely from Apple's hands only.

firemediclex has given the definitive answer to the question as to whether we'd fly with (just) an iPhone. Just shops why iDevices are so successful for aviation Navs. I've a new aircraft on order that has the Garmin G3X Touch panel specified. It will be interesting to see whether it supplants my iPad(s) as main Nav tool.

As for me, I'm a great believer in a "belts and braces" approach to not getting lost or straying into controlled airspace. I have a paper flight plan that I can fly with a compass and watch as the ultimate backup. I have an iPad mini (WiFi only) mounted on the instrument panel in a RAM Mount with data (normally) supplied from a Dual XGPS160, and another iPad 3 sitting in the flight bag just in case. Then there is the iPhone in my pocket. The Dual supplies top quality GPS Data (GPS + GLONASS) to all three iDevices (and can supply two more devices as well). If I have a passenger, they often bring their iPad with the Navs software on it.
I've had a couple of occasions when I've had the iPad let me down. First time was overheat & shut down when I was within eyesight of my destination airport. Cured that by mounting the iPad in a RAM mount and running off ship power. Another was when I hadn't done a good enough iPad pre-flight and my maps were a day out of date. Fix for that is obvious. Once got down to just the iPhone which was still far better than maps. Never, ever had to go back to paper maps. Once I had a situation where a mate borrowed my iPad to get the weather forecast and managed somehow to delete my flight plan. I didn't discover that until I was at 1,500 ft and homeward bound. Solved that one with a few "direct to" plans created mid air with a couple of screen taps. Too easy.

PilotDon wrote:

Once I had a situation where a mate borrowed my iPad to get the weather forecast and managed somehow to delete my flight plan. I didn't discover that until I was at 1,500 ft and homeward bound. Solved that one with a few "direct to" plans created mid air with a couple of screen taps. Too easy.

Sorry, just fainted. I am glad you guys have it so together. I would have an iPad, iPhone and iParachute!

Pete

PilotDon echoes my thoughts entirely (without the bit about having a new aircraft on order!).

I have been in aviation all my life (I am now approaching retirement) and know only too well that, if it can go wrong it will. It annoys my wife intensely, but that is why I too go for the belt and braces approach. In my case, when I go flying it's a RAM-mounted iPad mini linked by Bluetooth to a Garmin GLO as my primary navaid with an iPad and Bad Elf Plug-In on the back seat - two independent GPS communications mechanisms and manufacturers and two independent (bar the IOS!) display devices.. The GLO is great, but has failed lock in flight a couple of time (before the IOS8.3 update) and I too leant my lesson about leaving my iPad on the back seat in the sun when it shut down due to over heating. PLUS I always prepare a paper chart, conduct a Gross Error Check on departure plus when taking up a new heading, and I regularly cross-check my position on my chart using my Mk 1 eyeballs and prominent landmarks. It sounds a lot but takes only seconds. My instructor would be proud of me! But I do it because the skies are busy, the airspace is crammed full of areas where I shouldn't go without a clearance and I have every intention of being an old(er) pilot. That is also why I now have a Bad Elf Pro Plus 2300 on order. It's not cheap, but ask me if it is worth it when I encounter unforecast bad weather and have a low-ish fuel state.

firemediclex wrote:

I Don't have any issue with using 8.2, as you stated, Apple is still signing it.

My issue is having to download the script for 8.2 on one of the 50 websites that offer the download. The problem is that you are downloading the script for 8.2 from a third party website. Not Apple. These third parties can embed any malware that they want inside the script. In fact, after finding some very strange files written into my iPad documents (that I could not keep deleted), I highly suspected this to be third party malware. It behaved as such(although unconfirmed).

While the 8.2 downgrade may not be "jail broke", it, in fact, is from a third party that can modify the script however they so choose. Definitely not worth the potential risk , in my opinion.

BEtter get updates solely from Apple's hands only.

Always a good idea to be cautious about malware potential. That's why I, and most credible tech blogs, use ipsw.me. As their notice says "When you download any IPSW file from this page, you are redirected to an Apple Server (via api.ipsw.me). We do not (and never will) mirror these files."

If you don't trust Apple, well, I guess the bricking of Bluetooth GPS devices by the 8.3 release just shows you shouldn't trust the OME either. 😁

As an extra precaution, be sure to test any file you download with your standard malware software. I suspect the remnants you found were just vestiges of 8.3, but the decision is a personal one. As I tell folks, there's a reason they call them *personal* computers.

So, today I happened to be in a place where there was no WiFi - not mine not anybody's. So, I hot-spotted my iPad Mini (WiFi only iOS 8.3) to my iPhone (4S iOS 8.3) via WiFi. Then, I loaded my Nav App (OzRunways). My Dual XGPS160 was back home awaiting redemption.

OzRunway loaded and my little airplane icon lights up showing my position on the map accurately. I could fly with it!

Anyone else tried this and had the same result?

Seems my iPad is happy to accept GPS data from the iPhone. A fairly ordinary substitute for the Dual but better than nothing. And better than trying to fly with just the iPhone.

I was not keen to do the roll back to 8.2 and this means I can wait for 8.4 with the GPS fix.

Does your iPad have WiFi + Cell? If it does, the GPS data could be coming from the iPad's built in GPS receiver rather than the external BT GPS source.

Can you tell in Wingx Pro whether the GPS is coming from the DUAL or from your iPad?

I was unable to update my Garmin GLO software because my PC refused to "see" it. But then somebody on this forum suggested that I try a very short cable. Bought one on Amazon and amazingly it worked! And having updated my GLO software, my iPad is now receiving GPS position data again even though Garmin said that a software update wouldn't help. Haven't tried it in the air yet, but it's looking much more hopeful than before.

My Ipad has both WiFi and Cell. Both are set in the OFF status. Bluetooth status ON. The data is coming from the DUAL. WingX published their fix on April 22, 2015. It Works. Check out WingX Pro for more details at Hilton Software LLC.

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