Apple Pay on Transport for London - need full Device Account Number

FelipeV wrote:

Once it is launched and support is available and your questions will be answered.

No, it was launched today and my questions were not answered. According to TfL's Apple Pay guidance:

Please note that if you link an American Express card to your Apple Pay account, online support, including journey history is not yet available in your online TfL account.

We expect this will be resolved soon, you will then be able to view your journey history dating back to when you first started using Apple Pay. You will be able to claim refunds for any incomplete journeys. In the meantime, you can claim by calling TfL Customer Services on 0343 222 1234 (TfL call charges)

If you want to claim a service delay refund for a journey you should call TfL Customer Services.

And this message appears on the iPhone after using Apple Pay on TfL with an American Express card:

So it appears that my prediction was correct. This is a mess, which American Express and TfL have yet to resolve.

ScottCUK wrote:

Did you manage to get to the bottom of this issue? I have just experienced this today with a helpful TfL assistant on the phone at the Oyster Helpline, but who was unable to help further. He suggested I just get my Device Account Number and add it to my Oyster account where I could see my recent journeys and then work out which was the incomplete one, and get them to process my refund - or even get the refund automatically processed on the Oyster website. However I can only get the last few digits of my Device Account Number and so can't go through this process. How is this possible?!?

Yes, I did get to the bottom of it; see above. The TfL assistant misled you. Some TfL assistants are more familiar with this issue than others. If you encounter one who does not know what to do, refer them to https://tfl.gov.uk/applepay, which explains that journey histories for Amex cards via Apple Pay are not yet available. As I suggested above, TfL are refunding anything that anyone asks if they say they're using Amex with Apple Pay and give a plausible account of what happened. TfL currently have no way of verifying that you were charged at all, so this interim process is really open to abuse. They pay the refund to your bank account. Another route is that a supervisor at Amex UK who had been on the training briefing for Apple Pay told me that if cardmembers encounter any incorrect charges on TfL, then Amex will charge it back to TfL.

cladamson wrote:

Any follow up answers? ie My husband and son leave for London this week, both have Apple Pay and American Express US issued cards. Will they pay a premium on tfl if they use Apple Pay? And to complicate things, my son is 15, and I have no clue how they'd get the cheaper ticket. Perhaps getting Oyster car as they leave LHR is the best option?

Nobody pays a premium to use Apple Pay on TfL. On the contrary, contactless payments are subject to daily and weekly caps, whereas Oyster is subject only to daily caps. However, you cannot get a child fare using contactless; you need a child Oystercard. See http://visitorshop.tfl.gov.uk/help/travelling-with-children/

If your Amex cards are charged too much, you need to phone TfL. I'm finding that, because TfL staff currently have no access to journey histories for Apple Pay with Amex, they give out refunds without any questions. It's open to abuse. The only problem is that TfL gives refunds only to a UK bank account. They can't seem to refund back to the original card (or it is very difficult for them). Go ahead and use Apple Pay with Amex on TfL, as the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

FelipeV wrote:

I'm sure that your questions have been taken into account once the system is operational and we will know how it works.

The point is that Apple Pay is already operational on TfL, hence my questions. It is irrelevant that UK-issued cards can't yet be added to Apple Pay.

cladamson wrote:

I registered my husband on the TfL site hoping he can monitor his fees a bit in case he fails to touch in or out as you mentioned this as an issue. I hope his apple pay does not fail to touch as you make me think as US residents, we will be hard pressed getting a refund? Also...my "premium" concern was derived from your comment that you would wait to use your UK-issued Amex instead of the US one. Ours are US-issued. My past experience is Amex charges in local currency (good), but your comment about using your US card made me think they'd Apple pay would end up doing US>GBP>US. Please clarify why you waited for your UK card?

Finally, sounds like you suggest having them buy the youth Oyster card (looks like they can do this at LHR near the tube station), but have my husband use apple pay? I looked up the caps (which I did not realize were posted for contactless cards) and since they don't for certain know how much walking vs train vs zone 1-2/zone 1-6 travel they will be doing, it will be cheapest no matter what. Thanks and sorry for the confusion!

I use USD-denominated cards for USD expenditure and I use GBP-denominated cards for GBP expenditure. As a UK resident, it makes no sense for me to fund GBP expenditure from USD funds. As a US resident, presumably without UK banking facilities, it makes sense for you to use a USD-denominated card for GBP expenditure. However, I make these comments before even considering any foreign transaction fee. Amex US charges 2.7% for non-USD transactions - not quite as bad as Amex UK which charges 2.99% for non-GBP transactions. These fees are waived for Amex Platinum US, but not for Amex Platinum UK. None of this is specific to Apple Pay; you will incur such fees for any expenditure when using a US-issued Amex card in the UK. Only a handful of UK card issuers charge no foreign transaction fee, and I believe that it's a similar story with US card issuers. It's too soon before your trip to obtain a card that doesn't charge such a fee.

If you read the link more closely, you'll see that it takes 4 weeks to get an Oystercard for an 11-15 year old. TfL suggests buying paper travelcards instead.