Setup network in large house using Time Capsule, Airports (2 Express, 1 Extreme) and powerline adapters

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Level 1

18 points

Setup network in large house using Time Capsule, Airports (2 Express, 1 Extreme) and powerline adapters

We have a large brick home with no ethernet network. I've had some limited success creating a large wireless network using multiple WAPs and Powerline adapters, but Double NAT (and other) problems keep cropping up. So I started over with new Uverse internet service hooked up to the Time Capsule, which then has a LAN to a Powerline adapter. But the Airport Utility is having each WAP "Create a new wireless network" with the same name and password as the TC. So I'm wondering what the best setup is here. I'm happy to scrap the power lines if necessary. I'm even happy to see how much it'd cost to get an ethernet network installed. But if it's possible to have stream-worthy internet up and running with the equipment we have, then I'm all ears.

Here's what we've got:

* AT&T Uverse gateway with the wifi turned off

* Comcast cable internet with modem (not hooked up, but service still active until I hammer out the AT&T. If Comcast is superior, please let me know and I'll cancel AT&T)

* Brand new 2TB Time Capsule

* 2 approx. 1 year old A1329 Airport Expresses

* 1 A1301 AirPort Extreme

* 1 1st Gen Time Capsule ((should eventually be connected to the network but need not be providing WiFi).

* 4 new Netgear 1200 Powerline adapters (yes, I'm aware they don't really go up to 1200 in practice)

So, how do I arrange this to avoid double NAT (or other problems) and maximize speed?

TIA!

MacBook Pro with Retina display, OS X Yosemite (10.10.3)

Posted on Jun 16, 2015 6:50 PM

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Answer 1

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 16, 2015 7:43 PM in response to CLWaltrip

* AT&T Uverse gateway with the wifi turned off

* Comcast cable internet with modem (not hooked up, but service still active until I hammer out the AT&T. If Comcast is superior, please let me know and I'll cancel AT&T)

I don't pretend to know which is better, but the cable hook up will usually provide higher potential Internet connection speeds than Uverse.....unless you have one of the newer higher speed Uverse hookups.

Having used both powerline adapters and Ethernet wiring in my home, I can say from experience that nothing beats wired Ethernet cabling for reliability and speed. But, it's not easy to pull the cable in some homes, even if the budget allows.

For now, let's use the Uverse since it appears that you have it hooked up and running, and we will try the powerline adapters to see how they perform. I've used them with a couple of AirPorts in the past, but nothing like the 5 AirPorts that you have now. Don't know how well powerline will work with a complex network like that. Sometimes, you have to try things out to see how they will work.

We're going to go one step at a time here. So, for now, power off all the other AirPorts and concentrate on getting the Time Capsule up and running correctly.

How is the Time Capsule working as a stand alone device? Everything OK? No Double NAT, or is there Double NAT on the Time Capsule when you check the status using AirPort Utility?

There are two schools of the thought here on NAT. If you call Apple Support, they will tell you run the Time Capsule in Double NAT and all the other AirPorts in Bridge Mode. In other words, Apple wants you to have an Apple router in charge of the Apple AirPort devices as much as possible.

The more traditional approach has the Uverse handing out DHCP and NAT for the entire network with every Apple device setup in Bridge Mode.

There are advantages and disadvantages with either approach, so there is really no clear right or wrong answer here. If you plan to play games interactively online with Xbox or PS4, Double NAT is pretty much of a deal killer. Double NAT can sometimes create browsing issues as well.....some sites will load fast, others slow, on occasion, a site or two won't load at all until you restart the router.

So, how is the new Time Capsule performing when it is hooked up to the Uverse modem/router? Double NAT? or do you have the Time Capsule configured to operate in Bridge Mode with the Uverse?

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Answer 2

CLWaltrip Author

Level 1

18 points

Jun 17, 2015 7:38 AM in response to Bob Timmons

No problems on the TC currently, but that's because I set it up with a static IP address at XXX.XXX.1.2 and put it on DHCP Only with a range from XXX.XXX.1.4 - 200. That may be why we're having such trouble, because the other WAP's are getting an IP address from the TC rather than from the Uverse? Is there a better way to fix Double NAT? I've tried raising the range of DHCP addresses supplied by the TC to XXX.XXX.1.10, but the Update button remains greyed out. I've tried updating another setting along with the DHCP to get the Update option because, but DHCP reverts to 4-200. Go figure.

Also, I don't know if you're familiar, but with Uverse, I can log into the modem and actually allow certain IP addresses and ports through the firewall. This new gateway has a different interface from the one I'm used to, but I'm sure I can figure out how to pass certain devices and services through, if you think that's necessary.

This house might be difficult to wire for ethernet, says my contractor/brother-in-law. But he wonders whether we can use the existing phone jack system and pull the wires through that way? Although I don't know where they go, which would determine where the main hub/switch would be... Right?

The Uverse service is fiber optic. Supposed to be 50 Mb/s. We were fine with the capabilities of the comcast, but I've had lots of reliability issues with cable service. Always having to unplug the thing, eg. So if we can get the Uverse to work, awesome. If not, comcast just needs to be plugged into the wall, and it's up and running.

Thanks for your time, Bob. 🙂

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Answer 3

CLWaltrip Author

Level 1

18 points

Jun 17, 2015 7:40 AM in response to Bob Timmons

FYI, speed test with the TC only is DL 43.02 Mbps, UL 5.72 Mbps.

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Answer 4

CLWaltrip Author

Level 1

18 points

Jun 17, 2015 8:03 AM in response to Bob Timmons

One last thing. I finally got the IP addresses to go to XXX.XXX.1.10-200. I enabled a Teredo Tunnel (my brother's XBox One was asking for one), and that allowed me to update the IP addresses.

Also worth noting that we only really need the TC plus 2 Expresses to cover almost the whole house. There is a blank spot that we'd like to get covered if possible, but it's rarely occupied, and even then by a person who doesn't use a lot of internet. We were actually thinking of using that 1st Generation TC to cover that area.

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Answer 5

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 17, 2015 8:15 AM in response to CLWaltrip

My son uses a Uverse modem/router at his house. A Time Capsule (configured to operate in Bridge Mode) connects directly to the Uverse via an Ethernet cable. A 50+ foot Ethernet cable connects from a LAN port on the Time Capsule to the WAN port on AirPort Extreme (also in Bridge Mode), which is located in the den. As far as I know, the network has operated flawlessly since the Time Capsule and AirPort Extreme were installed about a year ago.

The wireless on the Uverse has been turned off, since another wireless network is not needed. Since both the Time Capsule and AirPort Extreme are in Bridge Mode, the Uverse provides DHCP and NAT service for the entire network. You never have to worry about a Double NAT this way, since the only device that provides NAT is the Uverse. This.....in my opinion.....is the simplest way to configure a network.

As I mentioned before, Apple Support will advise you to configure the Time Capsule as a full router (not a bridge) and use the DHCP and NAT setting. That will set up a Double NAT on the Time Capsule, which Apple will tell you to "ignore". This method can work as well, but the two NAT layers may not allow some devices to function correctly on the network.

My advice would be to try the simplest approach....which in networking, is also often the best approach......first and see how it works for you. What I cannot predict is how well.....or even if.....the powerline adapters will work in your particular home.

If you decide to try this, get the new Time Capsule set up and working in Bridge Mode and spend an hour or two to check and see how things are behaving. Here, I assume that the Time Capsule will connect to the Uverse modem/router using a normal Ethernet cable, is that correct?

Once the Time Capsule is working well, then you can add the next device and test that out. We'll go one step at a time with each device using Apple's setup "wizard", which will automatically set up all the AirPorts in Bridge Mode....rather than trying to hook everything up and hoping that things will work.

If you want to run the Time Capsule as a full router.....as Apple will recommend.....we can go that route as well.

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Answer 6

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:00 AM in response to CLWaltrip

I enabled a Teredo Tunnel (my brother's XBox One was asking for one), and that allowed me to update the IP addresses.

Then, you would probably NOT want to set up the Time Capsule in the full router mode, since the Double NAT will not make the Xbox happy at all, if one intends to play interactively online.

My son has an Xbox as well in his den with the audio video equipment, and it works very well for him with the Time Capsule and AirPort Extreme in Bridge Mode.

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Answer 7

CLWaltrip Author

Level 1

18 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:03 AM in response to Bob Timmons

So Bridge Mode will still allow it to act as a router? Meaning the powerlines are running through the LAN ports on the TC, not the gateway. I prefer Apple's router functions, because my experience with these gateways is that they don't communicate well with Apple products...

I'll try the TC in Bridge Mode and see how it goes.

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Answer 8

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:11 AM in response to CLWaltrip

So Bridge Mode will still allow it to act as a router?

No. As I already mentioned above, the Uverse will be acting as the router when the Time Capsule or AirPort is in Bridge Mode. Bridge Mode means that routing (DHCP and NAT) is turned off.

A simple network has only one device that acts as a router for the network.....not two. Having two devices both trying to route to the same network just makes things more complicated. There is no reason to do something the hard way if the easy way works well.

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Answer 9

CLWaltrip Author

Level 1

18 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:16 AM in response to Bob Timmons

So I need to plug the Powerline into the LAN port on the Uverse gateway, right? Because as of now, the Time Capsule is operating well in Bridge Mode. Highest speed test yet.

Then, I put the TC back in DHCP mode under the internet tab, and my speed went down. You think it's okay to leave it in static mode?

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Answer 10

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:14 AM in response to CLWaltrip

I prefer Apple's router functions, because my experience with these gateways is that they don't communicate well with Apple products...

That is not my experience at all. I've used Netgear, Cisco etc as the "main" router with four or five AirPorts on the network (all in bridge mode) and things work perfectly.

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Answer 11

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:17 AM in response to CLWaltrip

So I need to plug the Powerline into the LAN port on the Uverse gateway, right?

No, as I mentioned above, I am assuming that you are connecting the TC to the Uverse using a standard Ethernet cable. That would be far superior than trying to use powerline for the most important connection on your entire network.

Connect from a LAN port on the Uverse to the WAN "O" port on the Time Capsule either using an Ethernet cable (or powerline arrangement if you must.)

Get that set up and let the Time Capsule operate for a few hours to make sure that everything is functioning correctly. Then, we will add one more device, and test that out.

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Answer 12

CLWaltrip Author

Level 1

18 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:22 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Yes, the TC is connected to Uverse with an ethernet cable. I meant when it comes time to extend to the other WAPs, I should route through the Uverse, not the TC.

How do you feel about static IP assignment for each of the WAPs? That also has the benefit of me being able to remember their IP addresses so I can configure their firewall treatment on the Uverse setup page.

So a few hours, huh? I'll break the news to my family gently. We'll just all have to sit in the formal living room (15 feet beneath the TC) to browse the internet. I should take a picture.

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Answer 13

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:22 AM in response to CLWaltrip

Sorry, but you keep editing your messages and adding more questions. I'm having a tough time following all the changes.

Read over the answers above and then list your questions. Wait a few minutes to make sure you don't have more questions, then post back.

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Answer 14

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:24 AM in response to CLWaltrip

I meant when it comes time to extend to the other WAPs, I should route through the Uverse, not the TC.

We are not to that step yet. Please, be patient.

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Answer 15

Bob Timmons

Level 10

185,078 points

Jun 17, 2015 9:45 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Because as of now, the Time Capsule is operating well in Bridge Mode. Highest speed test yet.

Funny how the simple setups seem to provide the best performance. 😉

Then, I put the TC back in DHCP mode under the internet tab, and my speed went down.

Routing slows things down. That is why I am recommending that you try Bridge Mode first.

You think it's okay to leave it in static mode?

If you mean that the Uverse issues the same IP Address to the Time Capsule, that is fine. You can have the Uverse issue static IPs to the other AirPorts as you add them to the network.

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