External backup disk drops out regularly

Hello


I am using a networked and wifi Time Capsule to backup 4 separate home computers. Some connect to the internal TC drive, some to an external 4 TB drive connected by USB to the TC. Once the drives have been chosen through the Time Machine preferences panel, everything works fine. I have exactly the same setup for our office machines.


Here is the problem: after a while, Time Machine stops finding the external disk. You can still mount it via the Finder, but TM just won't be able to access it, just as if it had been unmounted. Previous discussions with Apple have revealed that the power side of the Time Capsule may be a bit lightweight to drive an external drive continuously. As a result, I have replaced the external drives by powered 3.5 inch units. The result is much better stability, but I still have the issue that every couple of weeks the problem will reoccur. The only cure is to physically pull the power chord on the TC and to restart it. After that you're safe for a while...


Any suggestions/fixes/prevention steps?


PS: the TC is an old model (1TB square model) but works well. Same thing in the office.

Posted on Dec 7, 2015 1:38 AM

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8 replies

Dec 7, 2015 4:06 AM in response to Moscool

Tell me the exact model of your TC because 1TB could be Gen1, 2 or 3. The number from the bottom A1xxx is what I need.


Your problem can also be due to the Mac OS issues with DNS.. what OS is your Mac running.. ?? Are they all the same? Is the problem across all the Macs at exactly the same time?


IMHO the TC is very much a home device.. and is not reliable enough for office.. leaving that aside.. 2 weeks is actually not bad for apple routers nowadays.. the latest firmware was not as reliable as some earlier ones.. especially on old hardware.


What you are experiencing is reported fairly commonly.. there is nothing much I can suggest to fix it.. The issue is USB drive interface is simply not as reliable as the internal SATA interface.


What USB drive/s are you running.. I am actually testing Touro deskpro at the moment to see how long it stays up.. So far the testing has not gone well but I do fiddle a lot with network to answer questions. So I will restart the test now.. I would be happy if it stayed up a few days to be honest.


What I would suggest is

1. Using a USB hub.. I know you are using a powered drive.. but we have seen better reliability via a hub.


2. If you have it go down the drive is not recognised.. does disconnecting and reconnecting the drive help? Or do you have to reboot the TC?


3. Try with 7.6.1 firmware instead of latest.


4. My final suggestion is to open the TC and swap out the drive for a larger one.. 4TB although you should probably also replace the power supply which is perhaps not economic.


5. Buy a Synology NAS.. hugely superior to using mixed TC and USB setup.

Dec 7, 2015 4:17 AM in response to LaPastenague

Hey LaPastenague (Provencal name?)


Thanks for your detailed answer. In answer to your further questions:


- The TC is an A1355

- I'm running OSX 10.11.1 on all machines except 10.11.2 beta 4 on one of the home machines

- I'm using a LaCie/Porsche 4TB/USB3 at home and a Seagate Expansion 5TB /USB3 in the office

- Indeed the TC is running 7.6.4, not 7.6.1 but I have had similar problems for a long time, across various FW versions

- Unplugging the drive itself does nothing. You need to unplug the power from the TC

- When I spoke to Apple I enquired about NAS but was told that Time Machine doesn't support NAS. Is your experience different? What would you use in a small office environment (given that I am the only tech support around)?

- More generally, does a NAS operate correctly under a Poweplug network (home situation) or does it require 'true' ethernet?


Thanks!

Dec 7, 2015 2:01 PM in response to Moscool

LaPastenague if French for Stingray.. My name is Ray.. I Sting people!! 😁


Mostly not even deliberately.. might be something in my nature. If I get stepped on, I just swim away but there is a barb in the tail.


It is a long story.


Thanks for the precise answer to all my questions.


The problem has affected both your home & work environment even though you are using completely different USB units.. that suggests the problem is fundamental to the nature of the beastie. I think USB drives will generally behave this way.


- Unplugging the drive itself does nothing. You need to unplug the power from the TC

Hmmm that means the problem is the firmware of the TC itself.


To fix it is not really possible unless we can find some factor that is common that is able to changed.


I would try a USB hub.. just because it is the cheapest way to change your setup that might help things work better.. definitely powered hub.. not a passive one.


- When I spoke to Apple I enquired about NAS but was told that Time Machine doesn't support NAS.

That is one of those Jedi (political) statements that is sort of true.. from a certain point of view.


Since Apple did not make Time Machine support NAS.. the people who make the NAS made their products support TM.


There is not a single decent NAS brand on the market that does not support TM with varying degrees of success..


I run a synology NAS.. and it is equal to the TC. As you can see (DiskStation is typical Synology name).. has had stable backups running to it since Nov 2014. Never turned a hair.


User uploaded file


In an office I would definitely use a Synology NAS.. (there are other brands and alternatives of course).

Buy a 4 disk model and put 4 disks (from the recommend list) in it if you have the ready to do it.. cost you about $1000-$1500 depending on disks. So you have full redundant RAID setup. However these boxes have incredibly flexible setup so adding disks is possible at later point in time.. if you don't have the ready to outlay immediately for what you need.. disks can be added. I am running a single disk.. it is just about due for a second disk to be added. The main thing is not to skimp.. buy a 4 disk model.. so you have expansion space. You can use a USB drive to backup the NAS.. backup is built into the NAS software.. you can then do something you should be doing now.. swap the USB drive each week and keep one off site.. so the business can keep all its data intact in the case of fire/flood/theft etc. The most recent week can be cloud stored.


Alternatives.. run a Mac mini (with server extension although it is not actually required).. that will give you central network TM storage.. The problem is using USB hard disks is about the only way to add capacity to it.. Thunderbolt disk array will cost more than a NAS.. so it is not really a great solution cost wise.


There is one other thing I would do.. Buy a USB3 1TB hard disk (the portable external type), Toshiba, Touro, etc.. lots of good brands. for every Mac.. and create a bootable clone of the drive using a backup software like Carbon Copy Cloner. (Chronosync will also do it). This is a full backup that takes the place of the internal boot drive.. it means a dead or corrupted hard disk can be instantly replaced by simply booting the backup. If you have never done it.. give it a go.. download CCC.. free to use for a month.. create a bootable clone of your hard disk to a suitably sized USB.. and then boot from it.


You can do a clone to a central drive but you cannot network boot a Mac.. and you will need a disk for each Mac if you want it to be bootable. (although if you have several identical macs.. you can boot any of them from the one disk.. and then restore from the backup.).


- More generally, does a NAS operate correctly under a Poweplug network (home situation) or does it require 'true' ethernet?

Power plug is no problem.. it is of course slow.. where gigabit ethernet is now so much faster.


For home I do not think you need the same level of redundancy and the occasional reboot is not such a problem.. in fact.. with a bit of trickery.. a mains timer can be used.. it will shut off your TC and USB drive at 2am every day.. and turn it back on at 2.01am.. primitive.. agricultural type solution.. a clock timer might cost you $10.. it is not the best solution because the disk could be spinning at 2am.. which is not good.. so you will need to perhaps get a fancy clock that does weekly.. We have done this kind of stuff for many years.. in the early days of routers that were unreliable.

Dec 7, 2015 2:21 PM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks Mr Ray


I hope you've seen Luc Besson's Atlantis. The best scene is here (just a teaser I'm afraid):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz99iLj6NcY


OK, so at home I'll live with the problem. In the office, it's actually less critical but still is... let me explain:


- All the critical data is backed up to Dropbox Pro, with full history restore even if a rogue employee decides to be mischievous...

- However, the apps and prefs are a pain to restore so if a machine goes dead or is stolen, it's nice to have a Time Machine backup

- Also, our customer database is local and although I back it up to Dropbox manually once a month, the daily backups are on the HD, so Time Machine plays a critical role. I don't back up to Dropbox because we all have local copies on our laptops and added 500Mb a day is not great when you're on the road!

- So a Synology NAS, eh? Would be nice to add a 1U unit and then forget about it. I have a few obsolete 2.5 inch SATA drives lying around. Would this work or does it need 3.5 inchers? As you say I could start small then add more...

Dec 7, 2015 2:42 PM in response to Moscool

- So a Synology NAS, eh? Would be nice to add a 1U unit and then forget about it. I have a few obsolete 2.5 inch SATA drives lying around. Would this work or does it need 3.5 inchers? As you say I could start small then add more...

I would buy decent quality new drives.. HGST, Toshiba, WD Reds..


The 2.5" drives are too small.. you can fit them with adapters but don't bother... buy 4TB 3.5" as that is still the sweet point $$/GB but some of the bigger drives are becoming competitive. And buy NAS drives or even enterprise level drives.. longer warranty and better reliability.


Use the 2.5" drives (with a USB to sata cable.. about $5 on ebay) to do bootable clones.. No power supply is needed.. all the macs I have are able to charge phones on USB so have plenty of power on the USB..


- However, the apps and prefs are a pain to restore so if a machine goes dead or is stolen, it's nice to have a Time Machine backup

Even nicer to have a bootable clone.. as I said, if you have never tried it give it a go.. it is really something to boot a machine straight off the backup.


I hope you've seen Luc Besson's Atlantis. The best scene is here (just a teaser I'm afraid):

No.. looks like a Manta Ray.. but thanks for the clip.. Where I live (Melbourne Australia) we have a bay full of stingrays and I have seen them 2M across under a pier gobbling up guts from people cleaning fish.. They are actually fairly tame.. but the sting is still in the tail.

Dec 9, 2015 2:51 PM in response to Moscool

I have been testing the USB drive plugged into my TC to see how reliable it was.. and frankly it is disappointing.. I control almost everything in my network but without a reboot of both the TC.. still failed to have the USB come up.. and then restart the USB drive for it to all come good.. that is only a day or two.


I would say reliable operation of USB on an Airport router is going to be very dicey.

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External backup disk drops out regularly

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