Re-flashing iPhone 5 firmware

LACAllen wrote:

I think you have already stated that overiding the database entries would be a violation of their contracts withe carriers. But does flashing to the factory state firmware, if technically possible, also violate their contract with the carriers?

I would say this

think you have already stated that overiding the database entries would be a violation of their contracts withe carriers.

is the same as this

But does flashing to the factory state firmware, if technically possible, also violate their contract with the carriers?

The net result is the same... the device's carrier "lock" status is being changed by someone other the carrier. Based on that it may not matter if technically possible.

It may or may not matter indeed but the question still stands. I'll parse it to help me better understand what is technically feasible:

1. Does Apple have the tools and is it physically possible to re-flash an iphone 5 back to its factory state?
2. If 1.) is true is itunes the only way to do that or are there other tools that reflash iphone 5 firmware?
3. If itunes is the only way to physically flash firmware then it would appear the database is the key and controls all. How exactly are database entries updated? Do carriers have direct access or must they send update request to apple for them to do?

Because according to the database that Apple apparently maintains, the phone is still "locked" to Sprint. Sprint has given me a MSL code and indicated that there are no obligations outstanding hence the reason they gave me the code. The words they use are "we have given you what is necessary to "unlock" the phone you just need to find out how to use the code and we can't help you there". My understanding is that the standard way to ReFlash a iPhone is through iTunes but that won't work unless some field in the apple database for my phone has an "unlocked" status indicated. So the wording of the cell carrier agreement describing the principles regarding "unlocking" phones does not define the term "unlock". I have seen the term "unlock" defined elsewhere to be equivalent to "removing the software that restricts the phone to be used on a particular carriers' network. It would seem to me reflashing the phone back to the original factory state effectively does this. So I was wondering if Apple is unable to do this for technical or legal reasons.

Thanks for the reply. I would not be asking Apple to flash the phone to another provider but instead i would be asking them to flash it to the original policy which in this case was a non-carrier associated CDMA policy. So in your opinion is Apple technically incapable of flashing a phone back to factory state or just legally prevented from doing so?

deggie wrote:

....

iPhones do not use MSL codes whatsoever. Whoever you talked to at Sprint had no idea what they were talking about. If you went through the proper unlock procedure through Sprint and they approved the unlock they should have sent you instructions to unlock an iPhone. Since they didn't, you need to connect your iPhone to iTunes and restore it as a NEW iPhone (not from your backup). If Sprint properly did their part you will receive a message, "Congratulations, your iPhone is now unlocked.

From what i have read on sprints website regarding their unlock policy, there is an unlock process for phones after 2/11/2015 called domestic SIM unlocking (DSU) and a different process for phones prior to 2/11/2015 called Master Subsidy Lock (MSL) unlocking. My iphone 5 fits into the latter category and Sprint's website explicitly states the iphone 5 does not support DSU.

https://www.sprint.com/legal/unlocking_policy.html?ECID=vanity:unlock

http://support.sprint.com/support/article/FAQs_about_unlocking_your_Sprint_devic e/7a3bf815-cfcd-4a56-925a-7a187d1c6637

The Sprint rep verified that I am well past my two year contract and have no obligations that would disqualify me from having my phone unlocked. He verified the MSL code that was provided to me by a previous rep and said that code is what is needed to unlock my phone but he could provide no guidance on how that code is to be used.

The line this rep was giving me seems to match that from others in the same boat. It seems Sprint is hiding behind this "we have given you what you need to have the phone unlocked" position to be able to claim they are honoring the CITA "Unlocking Commitment" but not telling me how to use the code to do it.

How would you suggest I respond to Sprint?

Lawrence Finch wrote:

mmbridges wrote:

What prevents the Apple store, where I purchased my iPhone 5, from re-flashing firmware so that it is back to the state it was in when shipped from the factory which was a generic CDMA policy not associated with any carrier?

Is it a legal/policy barrier or is it a technological barrier?

There is no such thing as a generic CDMA policy. CDMA phones are all identical. What differs is the carriers that will register the CDMA phone on their network. Currently neither Sprint nor Verizon will accept a CDMA iPhone 5 that was registered with a different CDMA carrier.

Your problem is not CDMA, it is the LTE that you need unlocked if you want to use the phone with GSM carriers. Only Sprint can do that. Yes, Apple maintains the master database of locked and unlocked phones, but the data in that database is owned by the carriers, not by Apple, and Apple would be violating contracts with the carriers if they overrode it. Anyway, Verizon will not accept a Sprint phone for the Verizon network. They WILL accept unlocked iPhone 6 and 6S series phones.

So here is a brief snippet of a chat I had with an Apple level 2 tech support rep named Derek:

Derek: "The original policy for this phone wasn’t Verizon or Sprint actually. But it was locked to Sprint. They would’ve done that when the phone was registered to Sprint."

Me: Who is the 'they' who did the locking to 'Sprint'? And what was my iphone 5's 'original policy'?

Derek: Sprint. When you bought the phone, with a contract through Sprint, that would where it was agreed to have the phone locked. That’s what buying a phone through a contract would have done. The original is just a basic CDMA policy. But when it was activated, it would’ve been through Sprint.

So Lawrence, when the phone comes from the Apple plant, would you agree there is nothing restricting its use on any CDMA carrier?

If so then when my wife went to the apple store and asked that the phone be purchased under contract from Sprint as part of an upgrade (she was giving me an iphone 5 to replace my old windows mobile phone), i would suspect sometime after that point firmware was flashed that "locked" my phone to sprint. Is this correct?

I am first inquiring about the Apples technical capability to reflash firmware onto the phone to put it in a state back to what it was when it came from the factory. I am simply asking if the apple engineers have the tools to flash my iphone 5's EEPROM back to the original factory firmware?

Once I get an answer to that I can start processing what that means and ask some more questions.

I think you have already stated that overiding the database entries would be a violation of their contracts withe carriers. But does flashing to the factory state firmware, if technically possible, also violate their contract with the carriers?

Lawrence Finch wrote:

So Lawrence, when the phone comes from the Apple plant, would you agree there is nothing restricting its use on any CDMA carrier?

If so then when my wife went to the apple store and asked that the phone be purchased under contract from Sprint as part of an upgrade (she was giving me an iphone 5 to replace my old windows mobile phone), i would suspect sometime after that point firmware was flashed that "locked" my phone to sprint. Is this correct?

Yes, and no. CDMA phones are not locked to a carrier. If the MEID of the phone is in the carrier's database then the phone is "locked" to that carrier. If the phone is not in the carrier's database then you cannot use the phone with that carrier. All carriers worked this way until about April of last year. Verizon then started accepting non-Verizon iPhone 6 series, and later iPhone 6S series that were not in their database. But not iPhone 5 series. Your iPhone 5 is a dual mode phone; it has 2 radios, a CDMA and a GSM/LTE. The GSM side is locked to Sprint. The CDMA is not, but there is no other carrier (meaning Verizon, the only other CDMA carrier in the US) who will allow it on their network. But the GSM is locked, and always has been if it was sold for use with Sprint. And only Sprint can unlock it. And Sprint is the only carrier who followed the letter of the FCC ruling that said that phones sold after a certain date must be unlocked by the carrier. All of the other carriers in the US will unlock any phone that is out of contract, but not Sprint. And, by the letter of the law, they don't have to.

So what confuses me is that there appears to be two databases (the one at Apple that controls how iTunes puts new software/firmware on the device and the database you refer to as being a "carrier's database".

When I first spoke to the Verizon rep about porting my phone number and phone from Sprint he asked for my IMIE number. He said depending on that number my phone could or could not be used on the Verizon network. He came back and said that IMIE number was indeed "in their database" and that it was a Verizon phone. He was surprised because I told him it is currently in use by me on the sprint network. He then asked where I bought it and I told him at the Apple Store. He then said that made sense because often the phones at the Apple store can be provisioned to work with any carrier. He also mentioned that for some reason Verizon phones (i.e. in their database) could be made to work on other carriers but often not the the way around. Because my IMIE was in their database he mailed me out a Verizon SIM card but said I would still have to get Sprint to "unlock" my phone.

Lawrence, can you make any sense of what the Verizon rep told me and resolve it with your understanding of how things work?

Also, since the term "unlock" seems critical to the conversation, what is your best definition? From above one might interpret a phones locked status as being solely determined by the presence or absence of an IMIE/MEID number in the carrier's database. Is that a robust definition that stands on its own?

At the end of the day I think the critical point is the law does not require Sprint to "unlock" phones prior to I believe Feb 11,2015. I am going to have to look up that wording for my own peace of mind. 🙂 I would still like your thoughts on the above earlier points.

Thanks for you insight!

deggie wrote:

There is no such thing as "flashing" your phone back to its factory state. You've been told this several times.

The GSM side of the iPhone is unlocked through the procedure I described earlier. There is no means to use an MSL code no matter how many times Sprint misinforms you on this matter.

The database Apple maintains reports the lock status of the GSM side of the iPhone. If you process an unlock request through Sprint and they agree to unlock the GSM side of your iPhone then they notify Apple and Apple removes the locking information. Then when you Restore the iPhone as a NEW iPhone in iTunes (and the Apple Store can do this for you if you don't have a computer but make a Genius Bar appointment before you go) you will get the message, "Congratulations, your iPhone has been unlocked." As I wrote in an earlier post.

There is no firmware to be flashed.

Now is it clear?

I Don't remember being told "there is no such thing as flashing my phone back to its factory state. And this is the first time I heard "there is no firmware to be flashed". To be clear are you saying the iPhone 5 does not contain EEPROM? If it does how does it get "programmed", (what the P stands for) other than by "flashing", a term commonly used to describe the EEPROM "programming" process?