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Is it possible to contact Apple's legal team?
I tried this link http://www.apple.com/legal/contact/#copyright but didn't get any response.
You can see my question here:
Can OSX fonts be used commercially?
It is relevant to designers and illustrators, and it has been asked frequently on Apple forums for years but never answered.
As I said, I believe your best course of action is an actual letter, addressed to Apple Corporate - in particular Bruce Sewell since he is the General Counsel.
Thank you for both replies (I only saw the other one now).
I'll try an old-fashioned letter if I don't hear anything within the next week. Your other suggestion (give them a call) is tempting, but I'd like to get this in writing.
I have written to Angela Ahrents (an old-fashioned letter) for a somewhat disabled person and the response was amazing. I've also had to contact Tim Cook some time back when 4 Senior Advisors would not contact be back with an Applecare issue and the response was also great. I have found that to be the best way to get a company's attention once all other efforts have failed.
Thank you again babowa, that's good to hearI
I hope I'll get lucky! 🙂
EDIT: Another solution would be to actually buy the fonts I need. I just saw I can get them for $30-50 a pop, and I just need a handful as I've got the rest as an Adobe Creative Cloud subscriber.
Thank you for the link ChitlinsCC -- but I already tried that.
When you click Copyright in your link, you just get a contact form that doesn't seem to work (you don't get any response). And the other contact options -- product placement and trademark -- are not relevant.
I'm hip - "call" avoidance system.
RE: your issue... if ya can't use a font to create a "work" - ya can't even *print!* - the font is NOT the work they are interested in - it's the "Software" (i.e., the font package) = Helvetica is everywhere - economy would grind to a halt if we needed to get permission to print a business letter or a sign or a webpage
ADDED
I have heard Apple retains all rights to "San Francisco" - unless you are creating some app for the WATCH
if ya can't use a font to create a "work" - ya can't even *print!*
Printing is expressly allowed in Apple's EULA: "you may use the fonts included with the Apple Software to display and print content while running the Apple Software"
What isn't expressly allowed is commercial use. And as Apple says elsewhere in its EULA, "Apple and/or Apple’s licensors retain ownership of the Apple Software itself and reserve all rights not expressly granted to you."
This is crucial for designers (i.e. you can't create and sell a commercial logo with a font that isn't licensed for professional use).
when you create a design in ANY tangible medium, it is a "copyrighted work" owned by you - a document, a letterhead, a sign, a package, a webpage - the FONT is no longer an issue in copyright law, only the totality of the "work".
As I said, the only "designer/publisher(foundry)" rights on a font Apple "owns rights to" that is restricted is San Francisco.
Again, commerce grinds to a halt if this is not so. If so, one would need to trace ownership of Helvetica from Haas'sche Schriftgiesserei (Haas Type Foundry) to ITC to whomever holds license today = EVERY TIME you made a sign and displayed it.
Your answer may well lie in Copyright Law itself - needing no explicit grant or reserve at all.
Ask a lawyer of your own
I'm going to stick with my recommendation to contact Apple as that seems a more direct and much less expensive way than dealing with a copyright attorney at +/- $300/hr.
when you create a design in ANY tangible medium, it is a "copyrighted work" owned by you - a document, a letterhead, a sign, a package, a webpage - the FONT is no longer an issue in copyright law, only the totality of the "work"
Sorry, but this is 100% wrong. I'm not saying this to start a discussion, just to make this completely clear for other readers.
Many fonts allow for personal, non-commercial use for all the purposes most people are interested in.
But as soon as you for instance design a logo, sell a PDF or use a text in a commercial video, you need expressly, written permission to do that.
Anyway, after a 4-days nightmare over this, I just found the solution -- and I'm not sure if I should post it in this forum haha, but here goes: I'm also a Windows users and I just realized that Microsoft actually has a chat service. So I chatted with a supporter and got written permission to use all the fonts I need. It took 10 minutes...
I'm going to stick with my recommendation to contact Apple as that seems a more direct and much less expensive way than dealing with a copyright attorney at +/- $300/hr.
You couldn't be more right.
If you are worried you might infringe, are you taking the word of the entity that will sue you to advise you?
If your project is a "big $$$$$ deal" - pay the $$$ to get the documents in a written agreement that YOUR attorney has passed blessing upon -
IF your project is likely to generate no $$$ to "recover", no company in their right mind(s) would waste their legal departments budget (liable to their shareholders to show "profit" - not "costs")
I am still stickin' to my point that commerce would grind to a halt, though - I have literally 1000s of works in the marketplace, and not one "commercial packaging" has ever seen a cease and desist order
tonality wrote:
when you create a design in ANY tangible medium, it is a "copyrighted work" owned by you - a document, a letterhead, a sign, a package, a webpage - the FONT is no longer an issue in copyright law, only the totality of the "work"
Sorry, but this is 100% wrong. I'm not saying this to start a discussion, just to make this completely clear for other readers.
Many fonts allow for personal, non-commercial use for all the purposes most people are interested in.
But as soon as you for instance design a logo, sell a PDF or use a text in a commercial video, you need expressly, written permission to do that.
Anyway, after a 4-days nightmare over this, I just found the solution -- and I'm not sure if I should post it in this forum haha, but here goes: I'm also a Windows users and I just realized that Microsoft actually has a chat service. So I chatted with a supporter and got written permission to use all the fonts I need. It took 10 minutes...
Wait a second!
Your issue is Apple "owned" fontfaces, and you got "permission" from a Microsoft employee?
I am really confused
http://blog.crowdspring.com/2011/03/font-law-licensing/
says in part
"This means that copyright law (at least in the U.S.) protects only the font software, not the artistic design of the typeface."
and further
"The U.S. Copyright Office has unequivocally determined that fonts are not subject to protection as artistic works under the 1976 Copyright Act.
In contrast, Germany recognized in 1981 that typeface designs can be protected by copyright as original works. England also allows typeface designs to be protected by copyright (since 1989)."
and further
"2. Is your intended use permissible? Some font licensing agreements may restrict ways that you can use the font. Review the agreements carefully when in doubt."
So... where's the agreement? It is "layered" in contract law agreements - owner > licensee > licensee > licensee > ad infinitum
get a lawyer if you want to CYA
Can you contact Apple's legal team (and get a response)?
