Stephen Bromberg

Q: Documents and Desktop folders in iCloud

The Documents and Desktop folders on my iMac seem to be gone. All that remains are the ones in my iCloud Drive.

 

This is what's in my iCloud Drive:

 

Screen Shot 2016-10-16 at 1.59.16 PM.png

 

This is what is on my hard drive:

 

Screen Shot 2016-10-16 at 2.00.12 PM.png

 

The Documents Folder and Desktop folder no longer appear here.

 

I thought that when I upgraded to Sierra and synced the Desktop and Documents folders to iCloud, they would "mirror" -- much as they do with Dropbox. Now it appears that they have actually moved into the Cloud.

 

My concerns are:

 

1. If I lose Wi-Fi, how can I work on my documents if the Documents folder no longer exists on my iMac?

 

2. I use a Time Capsule and Time Machine to back up my hard drive. Am I no longer creating backups of the items in my Documents folder and my Desktop? If not, I feel confident that Apple is doing a good job of backing up everything in iCloud -- but how can I resurrect an old version of a file if I accidentally delete it or if it becomes corrupted?

Posted on Oct 16, 2016 11:03 AM

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Q: Documents and Desktop folders in iCloud

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  • by BobTheFisherman,

    BobTheFisherman BobTheFisherman Oct 16, 2016 5:40 PM in response to DTM Boulder 2
    Level 6 (15,712 points)
    Oct 16, 2016 5:40 PM in response to DTM Boulder 2

    I won't argue semantics. Interpret the documentation as you wish. I think I understand what the document says, and yes I understand that it could be confusing.

  • by blackdogaudio,

    blackdogaudio blackdogaudio Oct 16, 2016 6:58 PM in response to Stephen Bromberg
    Level 3 (687 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 16, 2016 6:58 PM in response to Stephen Bromberg

    Perhaps I can assist some with answers based on personal testing...

     

    I first created a backup of all of my documents on a separate external hard drive (left unplugged for good measure from my iMac for the duration of the test) in case things went horribly wrong then I began the test performing the following steps:

     

    1: I upgraded OS X EL Cap on my iMac to macOS Sierra and immediately activated Desktop and Documents storage in iCloud.

     

    Within an hour or so my Documents folder and all of its contents moved (or duplicated itself) to iCloud (along with the Docs folder itself moving under the iCloud parent folder in Finder's folder hierarchy.)

     

    2. I then decided to test the offline availability of my documents with wifi turned off (and a reboot just to make sure my iMac was truly offline) and the result was all of my actual documents in my Documents folder were found to be intact and editable on my local hard drive during this offline state.

     

    3. While in this offline state, I made a simple modification to one of my documents stored in my Documents folder on my iMac, rebooted and immediately got the machine back online.

     

    I quickly opened Finder, navigated to the Document's subfolder that stored the test document I had modified and saw an upload arrow indicating "synchronization" was taking place with the copy in iCloud. It completed in less than a minute with my average upload speed of 6Mbs provided by my ISP plan. After the upload completed I verified the modified version of the document was intact in my cloud account and was now indeed the same version recognized by all of my other Apple devices connected to iCloud.

     

    4. I then went one step further and wiped MacOS using Internet Recovery to test what manual document recovery steps might be required with a catastrophic failure. After downloading and installing my factory supplied copy of Yosemite on my 2014 iMac, I immediately upgraded to macOS Sierra via the app store ( and with none of my documents put back in place on this factory restored image of Yosemite prior to the Sierra upgrade) and reactivated the Desktop and Documents iCloud storage feature during Sierra setup.

     

    As soon as my desktop loaded I checked Finder and noticed iCloud synchronization (for lack of a better word) had begun as indicated by the Finder>iCloud icon's black progress bar sweeping clock-wise like the hands on the face of a clock as a copy of my cloud's Document folder was being restored to my iMac and without my intervention.

     

    Whatever system Apple uses to make this process happen reliably and under catastrophic failure conditions has been very well thought out. This iMac was the "master" or my first machine to utilize this feature and my MB Air was the second machine that I activated the feature on a week before this test. Even after an Internet Recovery with my iMac, their system immediately recognized my iMac was previously the Master and retained the hierarchy of both machines with my MBA's Document folder retained as a child folder within my iMac's Document folder as they stated would be the case once the "copy" of Documents downloaded or synchronized with my local drive.

     

    5. My final test was simply a single document recovery attempt from a Time Machine snapshot which worked exactly as you'd expect whether recovering a lost document or overwriting an existing document with an older version (whereupon you are prompted to keep one or both versions along with where you want to store it via the familiar shrunken Finder window).

     

    Apple - I am impressed. 

  • by Barney-15E,

    Barney-15E Barney-15E Oct 16, 2016 6:52 PM in response to Stephen Bromberg
    Level 9 (50,793 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 16, 2016 6:52 PM in response to Stephen Bromberg

    I thought that when I upgraded to Sierra and synced the Desktop and Documents folders to iCloud, they would "mirror" -- much as they do with Dropbox. Now it appears that they have actually moved into the Cloud.

    No, they are mirrored. You just don't see them in the Home folder. You only see them in iCloud Drive, not in the Home folder. However, I don't understand why that is concerning. The iCloud Drive is on your Mac, so the Desktop and Documents folders would also be on your Mac. See my previous post on what actually happens. You can safely ignore everything that DTM Boulder 2 has posted. It is completely and utterly wrong.

    1. If I lose Wi-Fi, how can I work on my documents if the Documents folder no longer exists on my iMac?

    Well, they actually do still exist on your Mac. You are falling for the Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) being peddled by DTM Boulder 2. The files are still on your Mac* and you can work on them when offline. When back online, the changes will be synchronized with the copy stored in the cloud.

     

    * If you enable Optimize Storage, then it is possible that older files will not be kept on your Mac. You can only access them from iCloud.com where you can re-download them to your Mac.

    2. I use a Time Capsule and Time Machine to back up my hard drive. Am I no longer creating backups of the items in my Documents folder and my Desktop?

    I have not tested a Time Machine backup on Desktop and Documents. I don't have enough iCloud storage space to enable the feature on a Mac that is being backed up with Time Machine. I will restore my Desktop and Documents folders on this Mac and enable Time Machine on it so that I can test what happens and report back when able. That probably won't be for at least a week as I think it will take that much time to figure out what does happen.

  • by blackdogaudio,

    blackdogaudio blackdogaudio Oct 16, 2016 7:23 PM in response to Barney-15E
    Level 3 (687 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 16, 2016 7:23 PM in response to Barney-15E

    Barney - your "mirrored" description sounds spot on and fits with what Apple refers to as synchronization which occurs between the iCloud and local hard drive.

     

    Good luck with your TM recovery testing. I suspect you'll find it simply works as before like I did. I'd even wager Apple designed the process to deal with a scenario where someone left an iCloud Document's file open by accident on another cloud based device such as an iPad or iPhone during a TM file recovery from their iMac.

     

    regards,

     

    Dave  

  • by Barney-15E,

    Barney-15E Barney-15E Oct 16, 2016 7:35 PM in response to blackdogaudio
    Level 9 (50,793 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 16, 2016 7:35 PM in response to blackdogaudio

    Good luck with your TM recovery testing. I suspect you'll find it simply works as before like I did. I'd even wager Apple designed the process to deal with a scenario where someone left an iCloud Document's file open by accident on another cloud based device such as an iPad or iPhone during a TM file recovery from their iMac.

    Thanks for that info. I was just going to reply to my own post indicating that you had already tested TM, but now that you point out the open file issue, I will focus a bit on that.

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