The Health, Activity, and 3rd Party(Bowflew) apps are not syncing properly

So I read up on this more. And the reason why the Bowflex Max Trainer Calories burned doesn’t add to the move ring calories is because it’s not using the Watch Workout API. It has to be a watch based app and use the supported Workout API meaning it has to use one of the supported workouts (which Eliptical is one of them).

The move ring will not count any third party calories from iPhone apps like the Max Trainer app because it’s not a watch based app.

So until the Max trainer creators create a watch app, we will be cheated out of the calories counting on the Move ring. However they are correctly reflected in the Health app.

Dixit

Hi

For help concerning use of Bowflex apps (third-party apps) in conjunction with the iOS Health app and/or Apple Watch, including in respect of any supported data syncing features in either direction, I suggest that you consult the developer's support resources and/or contact the developer:

http://www.bowflexinternational.com/bowflex-max-trainer-international/customerse rvice/emailsupport.jsp

Ive had the Series 2 and Series 3 and both have exhibited the same problem so far. Here is two screenshots from a Fat Burn workout I just did 20mins ago. I set it on Elliptical on the Watch Workout app, and then started a 25mins session. You can see Apple Watch thinks active calories is only 229 but the Bowflex shows 292. My heart rate has measured on this one fairly well. But its still off a good 60+ calories in this instance. I do have the right age/height/weight set on my user profile on the Bowflex M5. Ive also reset the entire Bowflex user settings and all settings 3-4 times and no real change.

Dont think its just that only, its still off a good 25% even if you compare total calories vs Bowflex one. Here is a new example, this time key difference is notice the heart rate chart, its nice and clean. Why? Well I finally got a Polar H10 chest strap and paired it with my Apple Watch and let it use that instead of my watch for heart rate while I chose elliptical on my workout.

Now what I notice out the gate is the calories (active) in comparison with many times before using the Max Interval on my watch using the watch's HR monitor, it was barely in the 85-95 calories range. This one now 136. So a good bit better. But still off. This one my Bowflex showed 205 calories. Now even Total off that is 156, still 50 short. Thats 25%. But still happy with the Polar H10, at least I get to see the HR on the bowflex at the same time and its logging beautifully on the Workout recording now. Yes its still off.

Any luck with a solution? I just got a Max Trainer and have an Apple Watch. Do you use both the heart rate strap and the watch? Does your data move into the watch app? I hate when the watch app doesnt show my accurate exercise. I am really seeing flaws in the Apple Watch..

Yea I would like to know more on this as well. I have a Max Trainer M5 and even with it at the top of the list for calories, it still doesnt reflect the correct calorie count, it shows on the graph but not reflected. Such as I use both the elliptical workout on the watch to track the heart rate, but the calorie count it shows it always much lower, like the max interval workouts, i get about 200 calories and workout app on watch only says Ive done 100-120 at times. Even after the data is synced with the Bowflex app, it still doesnt reflect the right calorie count. The Move ring doesnt move. So I always feel cheated a hundred calories and if I do a second elliptical workout on the M5, it happens again.

Question: do you spend more time in the M5 Handles (where the heart rate pads are) or more on the moving upper section. And the on on the upper section, on the lower or uppermost “arms”? I ask because for me it’s the other way around. Apple Watch shows higher burn than bowflex. And use a separate heart rate monitor on the bow flex?

I ask because - I assume the bow flex is more accurate with a better heart rate monitoring. But if you’re not wearing a shepherd heart rate monitor do you have to spend more time on the pads just to be sure it’s getting a good reading? Conversely the more time you spend on the I would think the less calories you get for the Apple Watch activity ring, because Apple themselves say that brisk hand movement helps in accurate activity measurement. Let’s face it the Activity ring is made for runners and with the Apple Watch three swimmers.

I’m recovering from knee surgery so I’m not back up to the 200+ calorie burn that I used to get on the 14 minute max. But I spent probably 20 seconds at least of the minute and 20 seconds on the swell with my hand on the pads. Most of the rest of that time and especially during the shorter fast interval my hands are up on the upward laterals. And then usually on the one where I’m pulling more than pushing, the higher most.

I spend most of my time on the M5 handles at the uppermost section of it. I dont use the heart rate sensor part in the middle. I have the chest strap and used that a few times but was dissapointed that it doesnt actually "log" that in the bowflex app, it only takes a single snapshot. Wouldve been nice if it also took like 5sec readings like the Apple Watch does and then log that and also upload that to the Health app.

What I have found is the following on the calories on the activity ring. If I do say a 14min MAX workout, Im losing easily half the calories if not more, so like the Watch workout app using Elliptical will say maybe 85-95 or so active calories and the Bowflex itself probably says between 200-210 calories. Now if 2-4mins after that MAX workout is done, I then do say a Fat Burn program for 20mins on the M5 Bowflex, the calories shown on the Watch are almost spot on to what the Bowflex shows, probably off maybe 5-10 calories. But it always has to be the 2nd workout. In this case Bowflex showed around 220, Watch workout app shows about 210. Now remember I said has to be the 2nd workout? Well the other day I tried having the first workout be the Fat Burn one, and again same 20mins, same program (intensity wise) and the calories on the watch was off a decent amount. Bowflex showed like 240 and Watch showed 195.

Ive read up on the heart rate monitor much more for the watch and finding that its not the most accurate when you hand moves around alot as it causes incorrect readings, same with even arm band light based readings like the Scosche Rhythm+. So Im thinking of now getting a Polar H10 which seems to be the most accurate one (its a chest strap one) that supports both Bluetooth and ANT+. So going to try to pair this with my Watch and let it be the primary for the heart readings.

Dixit

Gotcha. I didn’t have my Apple Watch back before when I was up to 200+ calories. I’m slowly working my way back up there but it this point where I’m at 140+ the Apple Watch shows hire for me then the bow flex. So maybe that slides the other direction as the intervals get more intense I don’t know. I do know that the heart rate monitor on the bow flex itself and the monitor on the Apple Watch are pretty close in terms of heart rate. Another thing compare your average heart rate in the Apple Watch work out to your average heart rate according to the max. Is it possible that the Max isn’t getting enough heart rate information and so it defaults to some sort of table based on age and weight and gives you more than you actually should be getting.

I have used many fitness devices with heart rate monitors and I have grown to trust Apple Watch. Assuming you have the right age profile set up in both health and in the M5 - that I think it’s either a lack of heart rate monitoring on the M5 or that the Apple Watch gets less accurate with more intense burn.

The Apple Watch also has a high intensity interval burn in workouts. Specifically, as you can read for yourself Apple defaults more to movement via the accelerometer then heart rate via the Watch. If you select it and then tap on the… You will see an explanation. It sounds like an admission by Apple

Your average heart rate On the Max Trainer app is showing up as much higher than on the Apple Watch. All other things being equal, this is probably accounting for the calorie discrepancy.

Your heart rate graph on the Apple Watch jumps around a bit there in the first third. in my mind that sort of erratic thing usually means it’s losing its reading.

That would go along with apples admission of this with the wording they include when you tap On the ellipsis Next to “high intensity interval training.” It says the following-some of the irregular movements of high intensity training workouts may prevent a heart rate measurement. If heart rate is not available calories are still track using the built in accelerometer.

In my mind the M5 trainer has much more upper body movement then a true elliptical. So I’m sure the Apple Watch is just losing something. That would also account why it’s not as bad for me at a lower calorie output where I am because I’m not back up to the frantic upper body movement like I was previously on 200+ calories.

It would be interesting to run the Apple Watch as a HIIT workouts and just see if the accelerometer plays in to the calculation more then in another established work out metric like the elliptical.

But all this discussion just confirms that bow flex/Nautilis should give true Apple Watch integration. They know their machine and all of its data points so much better than Apple ever could. So true activity integration would solve all these problems.

I’m going to try recording 14 minute Max iwirkout tomorrow morning as HIIT just for the heck of it.

Sorry forgot to respond about the HIIT workout, back in Dec 9th i tried that and didnt get much better results. Example I got (Without taking screenshots) is that the Bowflex told me I did 192cals during the MAX workout interval (14mins). Apple Watch workout set to HIIT said I did 132cal. So off 60 there. Again the heart rate was erratic and actually didnt capture enough data to even show on the chart, just said chart unavailable.

I know going back to the one from yesterday you mentioned first third it didnt pickup alot, well on the fat burn the first third of that program you are sort of going faster because there is less resistance on the M5, and i like to stay at 10cal/min or higher on the scale, so with lower resistance you have to move faster. But once you get into higher resistance on the latter 2/3rds of the program, you are moving much slower, but still maintaining easily above 10cal/min. So your hand/wrist isnt moving as erratically either. Ive tried multiple different watch bands and tightness or looseness to see how that affects the reading and now much different there, i keep it snug enough so its not moving around on my wrist but not too tight where its clearly squeezing my wrist.

Like i said, i plan on getting the polar h10 chest strap and pairing it directly with the watch, watched a view reviews on it and almost everyone claims its the most accurate and quickest compared to others like Scosche Rhythm+ (which is more of a forearm one). I want to see if this works better, im certain that most of these workout apps use an algorithm based on heart rate to calculate active calories burned.

Dixit

I'm just starting down this path myself and I noticed you wrote "you have to move the Bowflex to the top of the source list or the watch will override the data and won't count it."

I'm guessing you were probably using iOS 10 when this was written. I am using iOS 11 and don't see where I can arrange any off the items in the Health -> Sources app. Everything there is sorted alphabetically and it doesn't appear I can change the sort order.

Where or how are you changing this order?

Thanks!

To change priorities of sources, you have to do it on what type of data you are requesting the change for. So its not in the sources section. At the home screen of the Health app, you have your different activity data, like Steps, Stand Hours, Active Energy, etc. For example, click on Active Energy, then select Data Sources & Access, there you will see the list of Data Sources. Click the Edit button on top right, then you will see each Data Source have the 3 vertical lines on the right side of its name and you can select it to move it up or down the list. That has to be done on a per activity level. So in this case for me the Active Energy I have the "Max Trainer" at the top of the list, vs my Apple Watch being up there, so it gets priority. However remember as mentioned in this thread, it has no way of adding to or being part of the MOVE ring on your apple watch because Bowflex didnt code this using the Apple Workout API.

Dixit

Crap. You’re right!