HEVC Support

The .mp4 and .m4v containers are completely compatible and work just fine for H.265 (HEVC). I have recently been re-encoding my entire iTunes library from original source with H.265 and testing with macOS 10.13 and tvOS 11 beta. The results in terms of quality and space saving are really amazing. However, there are significant issues for Home Sharing, and these appear to be by design by Apple, based largely on a reply I received from having submitted a bug report.

1. These files all play beautifully using QuickTime on the Mac (running macOS 10.13 beta).

2. iTunes allows these files to be imported just fine into the library, and they can be played there on the Mac, just as always.

3. These files can also be streamed to the Apple TV using AirPlay from any app on the Mac. This includes using the Remote app on an iPad or iPhone to control the iTunes with the AirPlay function set to the Apple TV (icon at top).

4. HOWEVER, these files do not show up at all on the Apple TV via Home Sharing. This is the "bug" I reported to Apple, and the reply that came back from Apple was this: "After reviewing your submission engineering has determined that the behavior you reported is currently functioning as designed."

5. Note that the older QuickTime Player v7 does not allow these files to be played, displaying the well known popup for an incompatible codec.

I strongly suspect that Apple is making a move to protect its iTunes Store sales and that the final version of tvOS 11 may not ever allow for Home Sharing of personal (ie, non-purchased) HEVC content. At this point, I would not at all be surprised if only HEVC content purchased from Apple were allowed for streaming via Home Sharing. I don't know this for sure, of course, but the reply above along with the technical behavior I've observed across several beta updates makes me strongly suspect so.

This being the case, I have moved my entire library from iTunes to Plex. With a very small change to the current Plex version, all of my HEVC content plays natively on the Apple TV with tvOS 11 beta, with no transcoding by the Plex server. My guess is that an updated version of Plex will get rid of the need even for the simple change I made, once the final tvOS 11 is released. If, on the other hand, Apple should modify tvOS such that HEVC cannot be streamed from any other servers (ie, other than iTunes for purchased content), then I will unplug the Apple TV altogether and use another device.

Weird- even with quality set to 19 for a 720p video the final size is still about the same as an mp4 for me.. Are you starting with the apple device settings in handbrake (i.e. "Apple 720p30 Surround")?

At the time of the the Apple TV 4 release, tvOS 11 was but a twinkle in Tim Cook's eye... 😉

You need the new Apple TV 4K with an A9 processor only for hardware HEVC decoding. The A8 chip of the Apple TV 4 does software HEVC decoding just fine. (Please note that I am not saying "transcoding".) Have a look at slide 71 of this presentation (also attached here): https://devstreaming-cdn.apple.com/videos/wwdc/2017/503i6plfvfi7o3222/503/503_in troducing_heif_and_hevc.pdf

The slide says iOS but tvOS is included in that. You can also listen to this Apple Developer's video, starting at around the 20-minute mark: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/503/

Nobody seems to be worried about the Mac mini with macOS 10.13 beta I'm using... which dates from 2012. 🙂

Hi NanocMag... As for Handbrake, you'd probably best refer to their web site for a good explanation of settings. Also, you can hold the mouse pointer over interface objects to get a little pop-up with some basic explanations.

However, as Apple also says somewhere, one of the big advantages of H.265 (HEVC) is that you get the same picture quality as H.264 but with a lower bandwidth. This is how you get smaller file sizes and lower network bandwidth requirements. I have to say that my own experience has matched just what Apple has said: same picture quality for about 40% less bandwidth. (Re-encoding my library has kept me from having to buy more disks! 🙂)

So, if your expectation is to have the same quality as your current H.264 files, you should be able to lower the settings in Handbrake. This means you can set the "Quality" slider on the "Video" tab to a lower quality value (which, non-intuitively, is a higher RF value). The page linked below is helpful. It also provides the following settings as good starting points based on your source quality.

From: https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/latest/workflow/adjust-quality.html.

• RF 18-22 for 480p/576p Standard Definition
• RF 19-23 for 720p High Definition
• RF 20-24 for 1080p Full High Definition
• RF 22-28 for 2160p 4K Ultra High Definition

Concerning H.265 in general, you might want to have a look here: http://x265.org/hevc-h265/

Sure there's a point speculating. A lot of us still have a physical iTunes Library and would love to cut our storage space for a video file in half by using a new container. HEVC would need to be a new file format as .mp4/.m4v is H.264. So, if they do plan on allowing HEVC (H.265) codec files into iTunes, one would think they would create a new Apple branded container and call it something like ".m5v" - the natural successor to ".m4v" in terms of naming schemes. Plus it makes sense if H.264 = .m4v that H.265 (HEVC) would have the .m5v name. Unless they want to all of a sudden allow .MKV into iTunes, but I don't see that happening - I see them creating their own container if they allow HEVC at all. Here's to hoping & hoping it comes soon! With SSDs, storage space is precious.

Hi there, first of all I want to say thank you for your post. The numbered itemized list of info is very helpful indeed, so thanks!

The assumptions you begin to make after that however, seem unrealistic to me, and are likely way off base. There are actually very good reasons why HEVC is not shared via home sharing yet. HARDWARE REASONS. You must remember, homesharing and airplay were originally supported only on the newest devices - the ones with hardware H.264 chips built in. At the time, realtime HD encoding for something like Airplay mirroring was well beyond the computers without these chips, but now everything has them.

Now here we are with a new format going mainstream, and Apple has just announced HEVC support on the next OS, iDevices, and Apple TV 4K. This is hardware support, in the form of a chip.

If you want to make an assumption about HEVC support going forward, I would point in the direction of the just-announced upgraded hardware devices, which appears to be a very similar transition phase as when H264 and airplay was rolled out. Soon, with these devices and HEVC, everything will likely work as it always has. My question is, how long will the H264 chips continue to be included before they are phased out? I would think we probably are entering a window of time here where we may WANT to convert our libraries for the future, while we can, before they get stuck in an unplayable past format prison.

Hello Coluch,

Thanks for your reply and nice comments.

However, your technical argument doesn’t hold water. What possible hardware requirement difference could there be between sending a file to the Apple TV from iTunes on the one hand (which works) and using the Apple TV interface to choose it in the “Computers” app for playback via Home Sharing on the other hand? The actual playback of the file would be the exact same process on the same hardware in each case, with the only difference being the way the file was chosen.

Furthermore, as a related aside, I’ve noticed another recent change when playing back purchased content via the TV app on the Apple TV... in other words, when streaming it directly from Apple’s servers: You now get advertising. I’ll leave to the readers to draw their own conclusions, but it certainly adds up for me: Apple has removed a fundamental piece of the Apple TV functionality in order to ensure that new content purchases (HEVC) can’t be played back with those advertising streams attached.

So, I maintain that my remarks are indeed completely well founded. There just simply is not any *technical* reason why standard and simple HD playback cannot be supported via Home Sharing. I, for one, will not be making any other content purchases from Apple and have already moved my entire library to Plex (which is far superior anyway and for which direct, untranscoded playback of HEVC works great).

I messed up a crucial word in a crucial sentence above, which should have read: “Apple has removed a fundamental piece of the Apple TV functionality in order to ensure that new content purchases (HEVC) can’t be played back without those advertising streams attached.”

Arghhhhh...

I think you are mistaking iTunes as sending a bitstream, when in-fact, it will use your mac hardware to re-encode a real-time h.264 stream. This is pretty easy to prove, because you can stream other formats (unsupported on Atv) from within iTunes (such as MPEG-1) that will play fine on the Apple TV from iTunes via airplay. To re-state, you can import an MPEG video (MPEG-1) into iTunes and play it out to an Apple TV via AirPlay, because the host computer will transcode, as is the Airplay standard. The same is happening with your HEVC videos.

I also use Handbrake, but you have to get the latest “nightly build”. The current official version (1.07?) has an issue with the codec identifier for compatibility with Apple’s variant of H.265 (HEVC). This is what is sometimes called the “fourcc” code... but never mind all that. If you get the latest “nightly“, it will work.

Of course, it will work only in the way I’ve desribed above, which does not include Home Sharing... which is the big point of my post and why I’m so disappointed with Apple. (At the same time, though, Plex is far superior, so I’d really recommend you use that.)

@Coluch... No, you’ve missed the point. It’s not a question of whether or not an HEVC can play or not. Clearly, it can and without transcoding. Just not via Home Sharing. Apple has intentionally prevented items personally encoded in HEVC from even appearing in the title lists inside the Computers app. They are filtered out on purpose. Believe me... I’ve tried it with a million different variations, and you saw the response I got from the beta engineering team. If these titles did show up, my guess is that they would probably play. After all, HEVC is one of the big ”stars” of the tvOS 11 show...

I’m not sure what all you’re really trying to say about bitsreams, transcoding, etc. But, whatever you mean to say, my post isn’t about the technical process of getting the video stream fro iTunes to the Apple TV. And, for that matter, iTunes has never done real-time, on-the-fly transcoding for Home Sharing clients. (However, I can’t make this statment definitively with regard to your example of MPEG-1, since I’ve never tried it... but I’d be really, really surprised if it did. And who would want to use MPEG-1 these days, anyway? 🙂)

But, again, all of this is beside the point, since tvOS 11 won’t even display personally-encoded HEVC titles in the titles list to begin with. Although I will never know, my guess is that upcoming purchased HEVC content would indeed show up. 🙂

I get what you are saying. I haven't missed your point. You are arguing that HEVC streams via one method (iTunes-controlled playback, thrown to Airplay on aTV), but doesn't work via another method (AppleTV controlled Homesharing). I see that as the current issue you are having, but I don't see it as justification for any of your speculation.

Your computer now recognizes HEVC natively, so it "SEES" and understand the MP4s with HEVC. Your AppleTV does not yet understand that format. It may even actively ignore it until the updates with official support are rolled out. This would not be strange to me. Also, you are using a beta OS, and without the newest TV hardware. It would be prudent to reserve judgement until both the final High Sierra and new tvOS are released and working together. Apple TV 4K may be another crucial hardware element with it's new A10x chip being a massive upgrade to the previous A8.

Also, if H.264 & HEVC are going to coexist in the Airplay ecosystem - it will be necessary for devices to handshake and agree upon which format to use when initiating a stream. Older software will predate this change and won't know how to do this, which may be another reason why Homesharing isn't seeing the HEVC files currently. It's very likely that Homesharing will work normally, when all software & devices are compatible with each other. So let's wait for the updates and final versions before we panic and make unfounded claims.

Also iTunes does not "transcode", it simply passes video to Airplay. Airplay is at the OS level, and that is where the transcoding magic happens, using the hardware of the computer. If you doubt this, how do you think Airplay mirroring, and extended Airplay Displays work? It is not a video file being passed over the network, it is a real-time H.264 encoded stream of your screen. I greatly suspect this Airplay capability is the reason you were able to get HEVC to Airplay from the computer. Since the OS itself can read the file, it can also Airplay it.

Apple's motivations usually involve creating the most seamless and reliable experience. With each new offering, some people claim that Apple is just out to control us and steal our money. As with those situations that came before, I don't see evidence for that conclusion with HEVC implementation, yet - because we haven't yet seen their full implementation.

Hi Coluch... I’m completely with you on the old/new hardware point. In fact, Apple states somewhere how exchanging both HEVC videos and HEIC photos between new and old devices (iPhones, iPads, etc.) is to be handled... ie, re-encoded when necessary. This makes perfect sense. I wouldn’t expect my old Apple TV 2 to play back HEVC files natively. Here, though, I’m talking about an Apple TV 4, where HEVC is supposed to be the star of the show. It’s in the core of tvOS 11, and it does work great as long as you don’t expect to continue using Home Sharing for HEVC files the way we’ve all become accustomed to using it for H.264. To me, that’s a huge minus that nobody told us about.

Similarly, new Apple TV hardware may understandably be a requirement for Apple’s new upcoming 4K video services, but we’re not talking about 4K video files here. My tests were all performed with plain old ordinary SD video... tiny bandwidth.

As as far as Airplay simply being a transport for the stream, I’m with you on that one, too. You quickly lose me again on the screen mirroring remarks, though. Although I had not thought about it, I don’t see what difference it would make whether mirroring goes via H.264 or H.265. For me, it would even be easier from an engineering point of view just to stick with the old H.264 stream... IMHO. (And for clarity, maybe we should mention that H.264 remains supported in tvOS 11.) This way you wouldn’t have to do any of the handshaking between client and server that you were talking about. But, once arrived at the Apple TV, tvOS does not re-encode anything... It just doesn’t. Still, though, none this has anyhing to to with the removal of Home Sharing functionality I’m complaining about.

This takes us to the point you made about my having succeeded in getting HEVC files to play natively. This was done using Plex, not iTunes (except, indeed, for sending from iTunes directly, which works fine... and natively). I know with 100% certainty that tvOS 11 is playing these HEVC files natively for several reasons. Firstly, as I noted above, there is a remarkable improvement in video quality. It’s very visible. Secondly, the Plex server does not start up its transcoder process on the Mac. Also, CPU usage is practically zero, and transcoding is CPU-intensive. You just need to monitor the server OS to see these things. The Apple TV itself also shows no lag whatsoever (although, clearly, I can’t monitor the OS there.) But, conversely, if I remove my tweak that tells Plex my Apple TV can play HEVC natively, then it indeed does start transcoding the file, and the lower video quality is quite noticible. Importantly, all of these remarks also apply when streaming (“air playing”) from iTunes to the Apple TV: No transcoder processes start up on the Mac server, and there is no CPU lag on either side. Again, it’s just that you can’t use the usual interface to get at the files via Home Sharing.

So, whatever kind of spin is put on it, corporate, commercial, or otherwise... the upshot is that Apple has removed Home Sharing functionality for one of the best parts of tvOS 11: HEVC. As I said earlier, what I’ve said is indeed speculation, and I’ll let people draw their own conclusions as to why. But there is an awful lot of public knowledge out there about Apple’s plans for its future in the media content market. 🙂

As far as your suggestion that this functionality may potentially reappear in the final release... It’s kind of hard to understand the point of all those months of public beta testing if they withhold this crucial part till the end. I’ll be royally surprised if it does reappear, but if so, I’ll come back and eat my words. 🙂

Are you streaming through a 4th gen Apple TV? According to the tech. specs., this and previous gens are not compatible with h.265. Maybe, that is the may reason your titles are not showed in your ATV via HS.

We will have to wait for the 5th gen (4K HDR) release and tests.

BR,

M

For Coluch... I am back to eat my hat as promised on Home Sharing, which has indeed returned. However, it seems to be the latest update of iTunes that did, not of tvOS. It seems that there has been some significant work behind the scenes on iTunes, and it appears that this is where the filter was.