Adobe DNG and Apeture

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Level 1

10 points

Adobe DNG and Apeture

Hello,
I imported my image collection from my windows machine to my new Mac Pro. Some of the files are Canon CR2 an some are DNG (Converted from a Canon 5D image file, using preserve raw image checkbox (not linear). I then imported into Apeture and started to review my images. The CR2 files look fine and zoom nicely in the viewer, but the DNG images are only thumbnail in size when looked at in the viewer and cannot be changed. They are being listed as 256x178 pixels. When I look at the images in Lightroom or Bridge I do not see this problem. Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks for any help!

Mac Pro 2.66, 4x1GB, 4x500GB, ATI X1900 XT, Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Posted on Jan 3, 2007 5:30 PM

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Answer 1

tidysteve

Level 4

2,975 points

Jan 3, 2007 5:35 PM in response to Trigeek

no ... search this board for linear and dng ...

aperture needs linear ...

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Answer 2

Trigeek Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 3, 2007 6:04 PM in response to Trigeek

Nope... did not work. I took a CR2 file and converted to DNG with both Linear and Preserve Raw options (2 files). Neither did it. Images are still small. I also converted with previews set to none, meduim and large. No luck. All small while CR2's look great.
Any other ideas?

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Answer 3

tidysteve

Level 4

2,975 points

Jan 3, 2007 6:25 PM in response to Trigeek

search the board ...

http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?threadID=&q=aperturelineardng&objID=f1092&dateRange=last90days&userID=&numResults=15&rankBy=10001

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Answer 4

Jan 3, 2007 7:40 PM in response to Trigeek

What version of the DNG Converter are you using. I remember reading that there was an issue with certain versions. I just tried with version 3.6 and the Preser Raw option worked perfectly. I set it to Full Size JPEG Previews.

-Karen

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Answer 5

Trigeek Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 4, 2007 8:50 AM in response to Karen Buckland

Thanks Tidysteve and Karen,
I did do a search prior to posting and they did not answer my question. The main fix that is being listed is to re-run the files thru DNG in the Mac, assuring that the compression was turned off and DNG set to "Preserve Raw". This has not fixed the problem. I am running version 3.6 myself, and I have even made a DNG out of an existing CR2 file... same problem, all I see is a thumbnail. I'm wondering is I have some kind of a preference or permission set wrong. One person on the forum suggested running a back leveled version of DNG (they ran 3.1) to fix the problem. 3.1 is a little far back for me since it did not support the Canon 5D. I have downloaded the earliest DNG that supported the 5D (not sure the version) and try that this evening.
Are you aware of any preferences that would impact the viewer image size?
Thanks again,
Jim

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Answer 6

Trigeek Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 4, 2007 9:21 AM in response to Trigeek

One additional note. I did read that there was a problem between OSX 10.4.8 and DNG 3.5, and that users should convert w/ 3.6. As far as I know I am doing that, but I do have PS CS3 loaded on my computer, and the raw converter is 4.0... but is based on 3.5 or 3.6 in CS2 terms. If based on 3.5, could DNG be picking up that version for the conversion rather than 3.6 that I have in the DNG folder? I'm new to macs, so I do not know how DNG determines which version to use if multiple copies exist on the drive.

Finally, when I look at these DNG images in Lightroom, Bridge, Phase One and PS the images scale correctly. Looks to be an Apeture only thing.

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Answer 7

Jan 5, 2007 1:43 AM in response to Trigeek

Firstly this is not really an Aperture issue. RAW conversion is provided by CoreImage, a part of OS X.

DNG support in OS X is just a posture so it can be written on the product leaflet, but that's it. Providing DNG support only for cameras for which the native format is already supported is useless. It does not help for marginal cameras and it won't help the day Apple decides to drop support of a discontinued camera.

It has been written many times already. It hurts customers a lot and Apple marginally, if that.

Me, I'm waiting to see what 10.5 provides in that respect. If the attitude is confirmed, I'll have to consider LR because it will prove my DSC-R1 will never be supported and even my 5D files might lose support sometimes in the future.

There is no technical reason to that situation. None, nada, zilch, nothing. Other RAW converters handle DNG properly and provide for long term security.

Another option would be to ignore the RAW part in Aperture, use another RAW converter and only use Aperture for TIFF files. Maybe, it will have to be compared to LR. Or LightZone, which is making progress too.

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Answer 8

Jan 5, 2007 6:43 AM in response to tidysteve

Steve,

aperture needs linear ...

I think you mean non-linear.

Linearization takes the original RAW and decodes the non-linear sensitivity of the camera's sensor and translates to a linear relationship. This includes manipulation of gamma and black point (more accurately black subtraction) and maximum, which are in my mind akin to setting the levels.

That's probably why Aperture does not use linear DNG. It's a negative that's been "messed about with."

Have fun,

G.

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Answer 9

tidysteve

Level 4

2,975 points

Jan 5, 2007 7:51 AM in response to David G Chapman

yes i did mean non-linear ... my fingers went faster than my brain ...

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Answer 10

Trigeek Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 5, 2007 11:28 AM in response to StephaneB

At this point I have tried everything I can think of and suggestions that people have made on the forums. I am a bit confused by the statement that it's a OSX thing... wouldn't that mean that all programs should behave the same? Anyway, I have decided that I will start using Aperture on my 2007 photos which will not be converted to DNG. Too many issues w/ program support (some programs support, some do not). I can always convert later if it looks like CR2 is going away. I plan on getting Lightroom, so I will use on my 2006 and some future collection (hey, what can I say, I'm a RAW converter junkie!).
Thanks for all of the input.

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Answer 11

Jan 5, 2007 5:11 PM in response to StephaneB

I agree. The whole purpose of DNG is to do away with the ridiculous myriad of RAW file formats and have one common file format. I too am very disapointed in Alpple having a so called "pro" application that has extremly limited DNG support. I have set feedback to Apple for what it's worth and everyone else should as well. This issue needs to be addressed soon.

G-5 Quad 8gb RAM, 10K Raptor Boot Drive Mac OS X (10.4.8) 30" Cinema HD Display, Nvidea 7800GT,

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Answer 12

Jan 5, 2007 5:15 PM in response to tidysteve

NP. Your posts are regularly high quality so I assumed you knew your stuff, so the correction was for other readers who may not have known.

G.

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Answer 13

Jan 5, 2007 5:18 PM in response to Chubad-Evil-Genius

Hi there.

Blame Apple for a bunch of stuff, but don't blame them for camera makers creating a proprietary mess .... from lack of interchangeable lenses (merely to lock us in), to proprietary RAW formats.

That Apple don't provide speedy RAW updates - or forward advise - is shameful and absolutely they carry the can for that!

Have fun!

G.

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Answer 14

Jan 5, 2007 5:24 PM in response to Trigeek

Hi Trigeek!

I am a bit confused by the statement that it's a OSX thing... wouldn't that mean that all programs should behave the same?

Other RAW converter software is fully coded at the application code level. Apple Aperture development team chose to perform RAW conversion within the operating system (CoreImage) as this is closer to the hardware and ℹ supposedly more efficient (faster running), and (ii) uses something already working (less to go wrong).

Does iPhoto interpret your RAW's?

If not, it is OS X.

BTW, not all CR2's are the same. Different Canon cameras use different sensors which react to light differently, and therefore the RAW data needs to use different decoding parameters .... even though the CR2 format is the same. So, without looking pack through the thread, I assume your Canon camera is supported by Aperture, yes?

G.

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Answer 15

Jan 5, 2007 5:26 PM in response to Trigeek

Tidy Steve made an unusual typo. Aperture needs a "non-linear" DNG.

But, if your RAW don't work, a non-linear DNG s unlikely to either.

G.

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