why cant I create a summing stack?

If I first create a folder stack, then flatten it and create a summing stack, I can turn down the summing stack yet still hear the AUX reverb track, which I think us how its meant to be right?

But why does this only work if I first create a folder stack, flatten it, then create a Summing stack!?

Baffled!

just tried this in Logic 10.2.4, same problem, I have to create a Folder stack first, then flatten it and then make a summing stack, then it behaves as a summing stack.

Bug or something I am not doing quite right?

MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), OS X El Capitan (10.11.3)

Posted on Jul 24, 2017 1:34 AM

Reply
7 replies

Jul 25, 2017 11:45 PM in response to kerochan

This is a good example of what happens if you just use specific commands (create this, do that, ...) without the proper understanding what is actually happening under the hood when you do this or that.


First question is, why are you doing that procedure you are describing, what are you trying to achieve?


Let me try to explain what is happening with these individual steps:


Step 1: Create a Folder Stack

You are creating a VCA Master Channel Strip (the new Main Track), and all Tracks in that Folder Stack (the so-called Subtracks) are controlled by the VCA Master Fader. Of course, you need a good understanding of the functionality of VCA Groups in general


Step 2: Flatten Folder Stacks

Two important things are happening when you flatten a Folder Stack. First, the visual grouping disappears (the disclosure triangle), and secondly, the Main Track in the Tracks List disappears. However, and this is important, the actual VCA Channel Strip, the VCA Master Fader does still exist in the Mixer (with any Level settings) and it still controls the former Subtracks, because (and that is also important) they still have their VCA Group assignment.


Step 3: Create a Summing Stack

If you create a Summing Stack at this point, you have to keep in mind the VCA Group assignments. Technically, you create an Audio Group, where all Subtracks are now routing their output to a specific Bus and the Main Track of the Summing Stack acts as the Aux Return using that Bus as its input. The functionality is the same as any Audio Group that you create manually with the only difference that the Tracks are grouped visually with the disclosure triangle. Keep in mind that you still have the VCA Group assignment you can use via the VCA Master Fader.


Step 4: Flatten Summing Stack

The procedure here is similar. The Flattening doesn't change anything regarding the routing of the Summing Stack, in this case, the Audio Group. The Aux Return Channel Strip and the routing of the individual Channel Strips still remain. The only two things that change are the disappearing of the visual grouping via the disclosure triangle and the removal of the Aux Track in the Tracks List, while the actual Aux Channel Strip is still there in the Mixer


Here is a screenshot how that could look like after all four steps. The 5 Audio Channel Strips are not visually grouped (stacked), however, they are still assigned to the VCA Group "Sub 1" and they are routed via Bus 1 to the Aux Channel Strip "Sum 1".


User uploaded file


The Track List only shows the 5 Audio Tracks, but no Main Tracks for the Aux Return (Sum 1) or VCA Master Fader (Sub 1).

I explain all those details about the Track Stacks and their important differences with signal flow diagrams in my book "Logic Pro X - How it Works". That will give you a solid foundation to understand what is actually happening with all these commands so you can properly implement them in your Project.



Hope that helps


EdgarRothermich - LogicProGEM.com

(Author of the "Graphically Enhanced Manuals")

http://DingDingMusic.com/Manuals/

'I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link.'

Jul 26, 2017 10:49 AM in response to octopi

octopi wrote:


... actually understaning VCA groups in general will help you understand the implementation in Logic.


And while you are at it, make sure to understand the different types of grouping:


  • Audio Groups
  • VCA Groups
  • Channel Strip Groups
  • Ad-hoc Groups


This is the cause of so much confusion because all of them have a specific purpose, they are quite different and most of them are used in most DAWs, often with slightly different terminology and some variations. For example, VCA Groups implementation in Logic and Pro Tools, that's where it gets pretty messy.

Jul 25, 2017 11:44 PM in response to EdgarRothermich

Hi Edgar

I wasn't really trying to achieve anything the way I was doing things, I was just trying to understand the Folder/Summing differences.


Anyways, thank you for your reply, much appreciated, whilst I am not fully understanding it just yet, I am determined to get a grasp on it! I will get 'Logic Pro and how it works' too.


However, your explanation reply does make things a clearer, thank you! I thought that when you flattened a stack it was like pressing CMD Z and going back to the way it was before the Stack was originally created.


and at least now I know theres not a problem with my computer!


Getting there, albeit at snails pace, duh...

Jul 26, 2017 6:00 AM in response to kerochan

A very important part of Edgars answer is:


'Of course, you need a good understanding of the functionality of VCA Groups in general'


Forget Logic, just for a little while and look up/learn about VCA groups and how/why they are used on consoles (NOT in Logic). I love VCA groups on consoles. As Edgar says, actually understaning VCA groups in general will help you understand the implementation in Logic.

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why cant I create a summing stack?

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