how do I update iPhone apps with new iTunes 12.7?

So the apps were "backed up" in iTunes. I am glad you agree. You are splitting hairs by saying they were not "in the iPhone backup". From the description of 12.7, I have to believe that this will no longer be the case in iTunes 12.7 and beyond. And if they are iTunes library, why remove access to them.

And please, there are people who still use MacBooks and pros, who have multiple devices. Quit demeaning those of us who use both laptops/desktops and iOS devices. As a 30+ year software developer, I would go broke if I removed functionality that my client base used, without offering a reasonable alternative. So get off your high horse and understand that we all are not like you or use our computers as you do.

GregsHouseOfMacs wrote:

Really, now. Apps were not backed up? Yes they were, as I could restore a phone in iTunes and the apps get copied over, not downloaded from Apple.

How about Apple just makes a separate AppManager, that does app Downloads and app distribution to your iOS devices?

They got "copied over" from your iTunes Library, not from your backup. Apps have never been backed up. App Data, yes. Apps, no.

GB

So the apps were "backed up" in iTunes. I am glad you agree.

The apps were only "backed up" if you put "backed up" in quotes, indicating "not backed up." But as I said, the result looked the same to the user. If a user restores from a "backup," what does s/he care where the data, including apps, comes from?

And if [the iOS apps are in the] iTunes library, why remove access to them.

Well, they're no longer in the iTunes Library for many of us. I deleted my Mobile Applications folders soon after installing iTunes 12.7, as having those apps on my Macs no longer serves a purpose.

And please, there are people who still use MacBooks and pros, who have multiple devices.

My wife is a writer and book critic and I'm a photographer. We use three MacBook Pros, four 27" iMacs, four iPads, and two iPhones.

I would go broke if I removed functionality that my client base used...

Unless that functionality was obsolete and your client base were asking that it be removed.

So get off your high horse...

You're blaming the messenger. The message is that iTunes has changed, iOS has changed, MacOS will have changed (again) in a few days. There are many people who fear change and they go hoarse railing against it. But the great majority of us will absorb the change and get on with our lives, which will be none the poorer for it.

Thanks Gregs. If you keep that attitude, you'll be in business for a long, long time to come.

we are correct in this....The apps are right there, in the folders waiting for us, old and new, backed up from the folders off-line. The backups link to the folders in iTunes, not the App Store.

I think MOST of us are unhappy with this "innovating idea"

Oh and I just went back to the iTunes forums area and looked for myself, and there are more than just a "Few" users that are not happy with Apple today. They're just not in this thread.....

As you say: ".... And if they are iTunes library, why remove access to them. ....."

I think Apple is trying to manipulate us all to only on-line streaming of everything. And by making it difficult to do as we want with what we buy, it takes advantage of those that think - or will learn to think - that "it's just easier this way, now...." (just my opinion). And we will crave more Cloud space and need more bandwidth and then rely solely on apple servers to store our photos, music and everything we have with apple. I for one want to rely on myself first and apple second.

Don't get me wrong, I like Apple's idea of innovation, the products and some methods. But they need to realize that the User should be given the choice, after all We... pay... them. And they never even told us, so we could voice our opinions first. An accident, i'm sure......

And I also consider myself a forward thinker and techy. I like to decide for myself, think on my own terms, and take new innovations - if they make things truly better. I'm just not the type that takes what's handed to me because they say it's best for me, like a "Stepford Customer".

Gail

I just read that.

what is you opinion: If the IOS is on an older device (iPod 5th gen, 4th gen and iPad 4th gen), I can currently sync my devices with iTunes (v12.6.2.20), including all the functions, music, apps, books and Everything else it contains. I can even do that with my 4th gen! What will happen to the older devices when or if I update iTunes? will it even accept them for sync? I know a dozen people that have the kids using these versions of apple products right now. And they don't contain a new version of IOS, but iTunes will still sync them easily.

I don't think you wanted to delete the apps in your iTunes Library.

I understand where you are coming from and I sincerely appreciate your concern. But I have not synced apps from my iTunes Library in ages.

Since I became involved in this discussion I have talked to a dozen or so of my Mac-and-iOS-using friends. High achievers in diverse arts, sciences, or academe, all of them. Every one has multiple Macs and every one has at least one MacBook Pro. They're highly mobile, and they rarely carry MBPs with them; it's iPhone and iPad. They tend to be impatient people; if they're on the road and they learn of an app that they want they're not going to wait until they get home and buy it via iTunes and sync it from iTunes to iOS. In fact not one of them syncs apps from the Mac to iOS. "Why would I connect to the Mac to get an app when I can get it directly?" I'm not arguing that that's a majority of users, but my cohort and I are, in my opinion, in tune with the the future of mobile computing. So for a long time now I have been buying my apps in iOS and downloading directly to iOS. That's why this change in iTunes is meaningless to me; Apple have removed a function that I don't use.

As for syncing apps that are no longer available in the App Store, chances are they're gone because they haven't been updated and won't run properly, if at all. I'm thinking of the 32-bit apps that iOS has been warning me about for a couple of months now. I found better replacements for most of them and trashed the obsolete ones. I don't know and don't care if they're still downloadable or not.

I think Apple is trying to manipulate us all to only on-line streaming of everything.

I'm not sure I get that. You can still buy music and download it (or get it from another source) and it's on your Mac and on your iOS thingies. The apps you buy are on your iOS thingies. Ditto the books. Streaming—Apple Music—is an extra-cost option.

And by making it difficult to do as we want with what we buy, it takes advantage of those that think - or will learn to think - that "it's just easier this way, now...." (just my opinion). And we will crave more Cloud space and need more bandwidth and then rely solely on apple servers to store our photos, music and everything we have with apple.

Yet none of that is the case. I reiterate: your content is all on your devices if you want it that way. I have my own backup arrangements (indeed, I haven't lost a file since a 5-1/4 floppy went bad in my CP/M machine), and I rely on my own machines to store my photos, music, and whatnot. The issue in this thread is how to replace an app that is somehow lost from iOS. The solution for the 90% of Americans who have broadband of some sort (FCC 2016 Broadband Progress Report) is to re-download from Apple's servers.

It's worth repeating, I think: cloud is hype for remote server. The entire Internet comes from "the cloud," so there is nothing new there. What's new-ish is the practice of making corporate server space available to consumers, from big business down to the kid backing up her homework. And streaming dynamic content—music and video, in particular—from "the cloud" to computers, whether they are on one's desk or in one's pocket. I don't find that alarming at all; I have certain Excel spreadsheets and Word documents that I store in Microsoft's OneDrive cloud and I find it very convenient to be able to refer to them wherever I am, whatever iOS device I am carrying.

David Illig wrote:

That is a totally and completely snobbish attitude!

Not at all. I mean yes, I am a member of the East-Coast wealthy liberal elite, but that's beside the point.

Mr./Ms. PDundas reports having 10 iOS devices and also having no broadband Internet. Even his Mac gets its connection via an iPhone personal hotspot. So what is s/he to do when iTunes 12.6 no longer works and the only way to update 10 iOS devices is via cellular data? Clearly, such mobile devices aren't for everybody in all situations.

There is much more than a small minority of people in that category.

No, there's not. According to the FCC's 2016 Broadband Progress Report,

• "10 percent of all Americans (34 million people) lack access to 25 Mbps/3 Mbps service.
• "39 percent of rural Americans (23 million people) lack access to 25 Mbps/3 Mbps."

So while 40 percent of those in PDundas's situation lack broadband, overall, only 10 percent of Americans lack the service. That's a small minority.

Other than staying with iTunes 12.6 as long as possible I don't have a solution for PDundas. Do you? And do you have a solution for when 12.6 no longer works? (Not counting the obvious, satellite Internet, which would appear to be the only solution to the problem.)

So, by your definition, people that put food on your table

in the big megalopolis you live in should have no consideration

what so ever as to what their needs are. Many use tech to put that corn

or steak on your table and don't have access to the high speed,

unlimited data networks!

So, they should scrap all that, end up producing half as much or less,

and you will be happy to spend 5 to 6 times as much for your food!

The solution for the 90% of Americans who have broadband

What about the rest of the world ? Oh i forgot... you are an American so it means you're the majority of the world.

About new Itunes, if there were no 100mb limitation size via LTE and the possibility to sync old apps on older devices, there would be no problem at all "going forward" as you said. But if "going forward" is to be enslaved in a golden cage and be forced to do as they say, please be my guest.

I will stop all updates of any apps and devices until they change their mind and if someday my devices stop working because of this stupid "moving forward" thing, i will get ride of all of this and take back my pencil and paper and boycott the entire computer industries ! Power to the people !!!

Akira1138 wrote:

The solution for the 90% of Americans who have broadband

What about the rest of the world ? Oh i forgot... you are an American so it means you're the majority of the world.

The U.S. lags behind much of the world in broadband access.

I will stop all updates of any apps and devices until they change their mind and if someday my devices stop working because of this stupid "moving forward" thing, i will get ride of all of this and take back my pencil and paper and boycott the entire computer industries ! Power to the people !!!

That's seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face. It will have little effect on Apple but will possibly impair your use of your devices. What stands a chance of effecting change is submitting feedback and encouraging everyone you know who feels the same to do likewise.

Akira1138 wrote:

The solution for the 90% of Americans who have broadband

What about the rest of the world ? Oh i forgot... you are an American so it means you're the majority of the world.

...

He is likely one of those people that if he ever finds

himself in some 10% that adversely affects him, he

will scream his head off.

Actually my issue with the change is that if something happens

with a device, you have to depend on ONLY one way to resolve

the issue. For someone using their device in business, this is a

disaster waiting to happen. Having to 100% rely on internet availabity

and Apple servers as a sole source to restore a device is ludicrous,

and for a business quite costly.

Restoring a device back to a working state with all content available

locally IS A MUST!

So, by your definition, people that put food on your table in the big megalopolis you live in should have no consideration...

You're creeping close to the ad hominem attack line.

And you couldn't possibly have gotten it more wrong. I don't live in a megalopolis. In my town the "town center" consists of a cornfield, a dairy farm, and a feed store.

As for consideration, I come from a family of Appalachian coal miners. I have never forgotten my roots, never lost my sympathy and understanding for the people and places that gave me my worldview.

Collinwood1680 wrote:

Gail

I just read that.

what is you opinion: If the IOS is on an older device (iPod 5th gen, 4th gen and iPad 4th gen), I can currently sync my devices with iTunes (v12.6.2.20), including all the functions, music, apps, books and Everything else it contains. I can even do that with my 4th gen! What will happen to the older devices when or if I update iTunes? will it even accept them for sync? I know a dozen people that have the kids using these versions of apple products right now. And they don't contain a new version of IOS, but iTunes will still sync them easily.

Well, I just tried the method outlined by hooking up my iPhone1 (the first one, so can't be anything older than that....). iTunes recognized it, no problem. I followed the instructions for finding the Apps in the Media Folder, and dragged and dropped one of them to my iPhone1. The first one wouldn't sync because the iOS on my iPhone was not current enough to run it. I then selected one I knew would run on iOS 3.1.3, dragged it until the little square showed up, dropped it, and my iPhone displayed "Syncing". It took less than a second to sync.

I also tested doing a normal sync with it, and I sync'd some new photos to it. Worked like it always has. The photos I downloaded were Portrait photos I had taken with my iPhone 7. The depth-effect held true, even though the quality was not as sharp. But considering everything, I'm delighted!

So, bottom line, you won't run into problems using a newer version of iTunes to sync your older devices.

The only time a problem comes in with iTunes/device compatibility is when the device is running a higher iOS than iTunes can handle. But, this test shows that iTunes is fully backwards compatible with older devices and iOS versions.

Cheers,

GB

Oh i forgot... you are an American so it means you're the majority of the world.

You, too, have gotten it very wrong with your ad hominem attack, which only makes you look silly because you know nothing about me.

I lived in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East from 1966-1993. I have traveled extensively in Europe. I speak five foreign languages, including Arabic. I know who the majority are in this world. https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/13024995215

if someday my devices stop working because of this stupid "moving forward" thing, i will get ride [sic] of all of this and take back my pencil and paper and boycott the entire computer industries !

Yes, good plan, sure to bring Apple to their senses. An alternative might be to get a mobile broadband device such as the Verizon JetPak . $60 per month (discounts available) will get you 10GB of data and decent speeds.

This is AWFUL! What this means is that we will need to download updates separately for six different IOS devices in this household via wifi (slower), instead of downloading updates once via ethernet (fast) and just installing them. So, this one change means I'll use SIX TIMES more data and spend probably 15-20 times longer downloading all of them.

You suck, Apple. Seriously.