Missing fonts

but I don't think you read carefully.

I've read all of the topic, but your notes keep changing, or don't fully describe what you're doing. Such as what I highlighted earlier.

I installed them again, without error. They were copied to my user fonts folder, but they are still not showing up in Font Book.

What is "them"? I would imagine the five fonts in question, but installed from what source? What installed the fonts to your user account Fonts folder? The OS will never install any fonts there. So what did?

But forget all that. Apple must have changed something in one of High Sierra's updates, and actually managed to make matters worse. Renaming the fonts no longer works. These five fonts won't show up in Font Book, TextEdit, or other Apple supplied apps no matter what you do.

The only fix now is to delete these font entirely, then grab these same named fonts from a Yosemite installation. You don't need to rename them, or otherwise goof around with the fonts to make them work. I simply dropped them into the Fonts folder of my user account, and there they were (I had already long ago removed the ones installed by High Sierra from the /Library/Fonts/ folder).

As has been the problem since it appeared in El Capitan, Apple has managed to screw up these five fonts only for themselves. Font Book won't show them, but Suitcase Fusion and other third party font managers will. Microsoft Office, the entire Adobe suite, Quark XPress and any other third party app I have can see the High Sierra installed versions. But, the apps installed by Apple with the OS don't. Or, only parts of some of the fonts.

Using the older, Yosemite copies are able to be seen by all apps. I really don't understand why Apple hasn't fixed this yet. Or, I should say, fixed it again.

I can list many examples of fonts that don't transfer…

In every case, I can tell you the problem is either a badly constructed font, or the OS itself is at fault.

Athelas, where version 13 doesn't work with High Sierra or Windows 10, but version 8 does.

As I've mentioned in this topic, twice, the fonts themselves are not the problem. The OS is shooting itself in the foot. Open any third party app that uses fonts and check for yourself. You'll see all five of these fonts in every app.

The root of the issue is the .ATSD and .fontinfo files the OS places on the drive for every font installed by the OS. Such as this for Marion.

Marion.ttc.DF798_0.ATSD

Marion.ttc.DF798_0.fontinfo

If you dig down to this framework folder…

/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.fram ework/Versions/A/Resources/FontInfo

…and delete those two files, the High Sierra supplied version of Marion will suddenly appear in all apps. Including Apple's. The OS is performing some sort of self or security check and the info data doesn't match the version 13 fonts. But does for the version 8 fonts. In short, the info data hasn't been updated to match the provided fonts.

To say the fonts don't work only means you haven't looked into the reason why they don't work, but rather simply declare they don't.

Wow! Apple really poked the pooch on this one!

When I first tested these five fonts on High Sierra's initial release, renaming the fonts still worked. Since that was borked in one of the updates, I had to wonder if removing the buried info data still worked.

I also pasted the path incorrectly. It's:

/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.fram ework/Versions/A/Resources/FontInfo

To save your contact some time, don't bother. I booted in to Recovery mode to turn SIP off, then removed all of the info data for those fonts.

Nothing! Not after a restart, clearing font caches, renaming the fonts on top of removing the data info, or anything. None of Apple's apps will recognize these fonts as being on the system. Microsoft Office, Adobe and everybody else's software does. Just not Apple's.

Whatever engineer was assigned to fix this problem didn't just make it worse, they poured epoxy over it to make sure you couldn't work around their own goof.

So, at this time, the only fix is to track down the version 8 fonts from Yosemite; if you need to use these particular fonts in Pages, TextEdit, or whatever Apple software you're using.

Back to the font article to add this disaster to the notes.

Those are fair questions. 🙂 As far as I'm concerned, no. SuperClarendon is somewhat unique (though I have numerous other fonts that look almost the same), but the others aren't anything special. Very typical seriffed and sans serif fonts that look almost identical to thousands of others.

The ones supplied with High Sierra are still perfectly usable, you just can't see them in Apple's apps. Since renaming no longer works, you'd have to go into the framework file where the OS stores whatever-the-heck-it-is information on them and deleted those 10 name matched files. Then they'd work. See my font article at:

http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html

The location is mentioned in the El Capitan listing. You'd likely have to temporarily disable SIP to remove the files. They will of course come back if you reinstall the OS.

Disclaimer: A link in this post may result in compensation.

When I tried to "install" the fonts, I got duplicate errors.

Yes, because the copied fonts are duplicates. The desktop names mean nothing. The issue is they have the same internal names, so they conflict with each other. After creating the "copy" fonts, you must remove the originals.

I ran "Restore Standard Fonts", and it removed them. I guess it no longer considers them 'standard', even though they came with my system.

They were removed because the copied desktop names of the fonts don't match the list the OS uses to determine if they should be taken out of the Fonts folder. Since they didn't match, they were considered third party fonts.

I installed them again, without error. They were copied to my user fonts folder, but they are still not showing up in Font Book.

"They" being what? The originally named fonts? If so, no, they won't show up in Font Book.

The steps you first posted is what needs to be done. Make copies of those five fonts. Remove the fonts with the original names.

I've reported this issue to Apple a couple of times since it appeared back in El Capitan. It was fixed in a late beta of Sierra, and into 10.12.1. The next Sierra update broke them again and the issue hasn't been fixed since.

Check the folder " fonts removed "in user library and system library , if they are there you can copy paste them in the font book , clicking on restore fonts will remove unwanted fonts .

You don't need them. Make copies of the five fonts and delete the originals. Or, simply rename the originals. Such as AthelasE.ttc.

If you don't know of anyone running a Mac with Yosemite, did you "purchase" that OS from the App Store while it was available? If so, open the App Store and go to the list of your purchased apps. Download Yosemite. The OS will complain that a newer OS is already installed. Download it anyway.

When the download is complete, it will launch the installation process. That immediately stops on the initial splash screen and asks where you want the OS installed. Press Command+Q to quit, just as you would with any other app. The Yosemite installer package will remain in the Applications folder.

Download Pacifist.

Launch Pacifist. Right click on the Yosemite installer and choose to Show Package Contents. Open the folder Contents, then Shared Support. Drag and drop the file OSInstall.mpkg onto the Pacifist interface. Pacifist will also warn you that the package you're opening is not the same as the OS you're running. Click Continue. It will take a few moments as it parses all of the install items.

Click the expansion arrows to get to the /Library/Fonts/ folder listing.

Highlight the five problem fonts in the list. You can click the Install button at the top left of Pacifist's interface. This will install them to their default location. Or, you can simply drag them out to the desktop. Then put the fonts wherever you want, such as the Fonts folder in your user account. It doesn't matter which.

Make sure all other copies of these fonts have been removed from the drive so you don't create font conflicts.

Backup the Yosemite installer package to an external drive so you have it without having to download it again. Delete the Yosemite installer from the Applications folder. It's no longer needed.

How nice are the fonts is not the issue. The point is that fonts (8 in all) included in the High Sierra install don't work with the OS. I have 1588 fonts, including the fonts included with High Sierra install, in both El Capitan and Sierra. The fonts at issue are Athelas.ttc, Charter.ttc, Iowan Old Style.ttc, Marion.ttc, Seravek.ttc, SuperClarendon.ttc, DIN Alternate Bold.ttf and DIN Condensed Bold.ttf. These are all at version 13.xxxx. However, the previous versions (8.xxxx) included with Yosemite - Sierra do work with High Sierra. They should be available with any installer older than High Sierra. The versions dated Sept. 2014, came with Yosemite. but those with the newer OS versions may have newer dates, but are identical files.

I don't spread falsehoods. I can list many examples of fonts that don't transfer between platforms or between different versions of the OS. Of particular interest is one that has been discussed here. Athelas, where version 13 doesn't work with High Sierra or Windows 10, but version 8 does.

Those silly Apple folks. 😝

I copied the 5 fonts mentioned in the OP from Yosemite and those work. I must say they look very similar to each other.

I can confirm all of your observations. I have found that older versions of these fonts will install (e.g. 8.0d7e3, vs 13.0d1e3 included in the standard install of High Sierra) will show up is Font Book. Surprisingly. the newer versions show up in Font Book for Sierra and El Capitan! This needs to be fixed by Apple.

That is absolutely, 100% false. At least for Windows and the Mac. I can't speak for how well Linux handles OpenType fonts as I've never so much as looked at a Linux system. Well, other than my NAS device and our TiVo, which both run Linux underneath as their OS.

If you have a font that works on a Mac, but not in Windows (or visa versa), then you have an issue with the non working computer that needs to be fixed. The font could be damaged. You may have a font conflict (Quark XPress intentionally will not show conflicting fonts in its lists). Those are a couple of quick things to check.

Not in over 37 years of prepress experience have I ever seen a cross-platform font that did not work on both OS's. And I've done this with I can't even begin to guess how many thousands of fonts.

Since you asked, I think regressions aren't that uncommon with any OS.

Agreed. Buy why handle the OS installed fonts, and only those, in some weird manner? There shouldn't be any more to it than enable, or disable. There's no reason to do anything else with them.

I have to presume, since this problem started with El Capitan and the introduction of SIP, that Apple is trying to separate out the OS installed fonts as protected. Just as all Apple installed apps are protected against any type of external modification.

As an example, there are multiple posts complaining you cannot copy a file > 2GB to a FAT32 drive in High Sierra using the Finder despite the fact you could in all previous versions.

Yes, I've seen that. Another botched code modification where they had no reason to even look at changing how the function worked. Or an admin box that has worked as expected since 10.0, then all of a sudden could enable root access by simply putting "root" in as the admin name and a blank password. Why would any engineer touch the code for something that has worked perfectly for 17 years?

Well, I suppose they had to since at least some of that may have still been 32 bit code, and all of that is being eliminated in the next major OS release. 64 bit only, top to bottom. That means a lot of digging into standing code to port it to 64 bit. Remember how big of a mess the initial release of Snow Leopard was when the OS went through a major rewrite to dump all 32 bit and PPC code throughout the OS? Font handling in particular was unbelievably bad until 10.6.3. That because so much of the font engine was old code that could not be ported to 64 bit and the whole thing had to be rewritten from scratch.