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User profile for user: AppleEE4
AppleEE4 Author
User level: Level 1
5 points

Can't get an old G4 PowerBook's Superdrive to read discs so can wipe & update to clean OSX10.5.8? Help please?

AIM: Get SuperDrive working, Wipe PowerBook, Install latest OSX10.5.8


Hi everyone,

I have an old, but pristine 15" G4 PowerBook, machine model 5,2 Model A1046, 1.25GHz that I want to prepare to sell on now.


Its currently on 10.4.11 Tiger (the last version you can run OS Classic alongside), & I want to fully wipe the HD & install the latest OSX possible on it. According to Everymac it can be run up to OSX10.5.8 Leopard, which AppleStore in UK also believe is correct. (They've officially stopped supporting anything pre El Capitan recently, so can't do it for me, but I saw a techie I know there, who concurred 10.5.8 is the max & should be ok on this Apple, non Intel processor)


Otherwise, I have all intel based iMac & MacBook Pro with an external superdrive, but the drive is too new to read on the G4 PB & of course the discs I list below won't read on intel either. So snookered!


Although I have 10.3 (PowerBook 15" & 17" Specific, Z691-4703-A), 10.4 (Boxed 2Z691-505-A) & 10.5 (Replacement 2Z691-6248-A) installer DVD's, the G4 PB internal superdrive won't mount them, (possibly missing drivers) so Apple techie advised getting a G4 Mac Bootable USB stick off eBay with 10.5+ on it.


I have not been able to get this, nor do I have anyone with access to a G4 to resolve & make a bootable OSX USB stick. (I did find an eBay seller with OSX 10.5.8 USB stick, but its not G4PowerBook specific & apparently not suitable)


Sooo...Can anyone help out, or advise where to get 10.5+ version on a G4 formatted USB stick that will work with this G4 PowerBook please?


OR, if I am up the wrong track, advise how I can resolve the Superdrive issue, wipe HD & update to latest OSX available for it?


I'd really appreciate any possible help please.


Regards

Ian

iMac, macOS Sierra (10.12.6), MacBook Pro, iPhone,iPod,G4PB

Posted on Mar 5, 2018 5:46 AM

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User profile for user: Allan Jones
Allan Jones
User level: Level 9
68,528 points

Mar 7, 2018 8:54 AM in response to AppleEE4

I have the OSX 10.3/.4/.5 discs so just need someone in the Christchurch area of UK with a Firewire compatible drive now..

Hello again Ian!


There maybe one out there no farther away than a search engine. I have an older Sony external DVD drive that proved to be PowerPC bootable via its FireWire interface. I've used it to install the OS on several PPC Macs.


Its model is DRX-820UL-T. I've searched for that model online and they do show up from time to time on auction sites. I picked mine up complete with all original cables, accessories, and even the users' manual for US$5 at a church rummage sale! Looks like this:


User uploaded file

It's a nice bit of kit if you can find one cheap.


Try Mac User Groups, too: http://appleusergroupresources.com/find-a-group/


Someone near you may have a bootable external you can borrow.


Best of luck!

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User profile for user: Limnos
Limnos
User level: Level 10
411,001 points

Mar 5, 2018 6:02 AM in response to AppleEE4

An Apple techie recommended a bootable flash drive from eBay?? Apart from being a bootleg copy of Leopard OSX it also is extremely unlikely to work with a G4 PPC Mac. They won't boot USB so it also won't boot your Superdrive. G4s would boot to Firewire drives which are hard to find now.


One option is to call USA Apple Customer Support 1-800-767-2775 (telephone numbers for other countries - https://support.apple.com/HT201232). Provide the serial number and specifications of the Mac. They may be able to provide a replacement set of discs for a fee. These discs will be for whatever OS was installed on the computer originally, so if you have an upgraded version you will need to obtain the discs some other way.


You can also see if you can find an set of black colored retail Leopard discs, not grey ones which will only boot specific model computers with which they were provided.


Both the above options presume the optical drive even still works which it well might not after all this time.


There's various other options depending upon which other similar vintage Mac models you may have around but this is starting to get complicated without knowing what you have.


Consider if this is even worth it. A G4 is unlikely to fetch much on the used market now.

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User profile for user: AppleEE4
AppleEE4 Author
User level: Level 1
5 points

Mar 5, 2018 7:29 AM in response to Limnos

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply & very speedy at too!


See if we can rule in & out/clarify a few things here to progress this...


Firstly, to confirm the G4 PowerBook does have a USB slot. Is it that you mean you can't make a bootable USB OS for it to boot off or did you assume it does not have a USB slot on this model?


Secondly, to be clear at present I can't mount any discs in the superdrive. So can't use installer discs currently to input.

This may be a driver or firmware issue or of course as you say it could be that it is kaput, has popped it clogs! The Mac however has been hardly used so not had a beating & otherwise pristine.


Thirdly, It does have firewire ports but I have nothing else vintage, so ideally need to use the USB port or wifi options to input to it.


Fourthly, to clarify the OSX discs & versions/detail I mentioned that I have:

10.3 (PowerBook 15" & 17" Specific, Z691-4703-A) is the original Apple grey disc sold with the Mac

However I do have..

10.4 (Boxed 2Z691-505-A) & 10.5 which is a Black disc (says it includes X Code 2) - I think this is most likely the disc I probably updated it long ago with (but not a 100% sure)

10.5 (Replacement 2Z691-6248-A) which is a white disc from Apple Ireland (says For Mac Computers Mac OSX Install Disc)


Bearing in mind you seem shocked with the AppleStore techie advice, are you perhaps able establish/confirm that OSX10.5.8 is the latest installable version to go it, as he & Everymac suggest? It would be helpful to get to this version as the Safari update with it etc would be much better at this level.


However if needs be kept back at 10.4 this would be ok to at least establish if drivers/firmware were the cause of the superdrive issues & thus honestly sell it on working with a new clean OSX installed.


Yes I understand these are not worth big money, it was the top of the range £2400+VAT in its time & is virtually unused. I have seen broken ones for parts at £50-70 tatty ones running for £170 and tidy, but flat battery ones around £200+. I think its worth a go anyway. I'm hoping to help out someone & so selling this would go someway to helping them with their problems.


Appreciate your assistance/game plan with this..


Kind regards

Ian

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User profile for user: Limnos
Limnos
User level: Level 10
411,001 points

Mar 5, 2018 11:54 AM in response to AppleEE4

G4s will not boot to USB, with a few rare isolated exceptions. That means a Superdrive won't work, nor will the OS installed to a flash drive. They have USB but back then only Firewire drives were supported for booting. That means if you want to start up from an installer disc it has to be in a Firewire optical drive or the built-in drive. If you want to boot from a external hard drive it has to be one with the OS already installed to it and it has to be Firewire.


Apple tends to only approve of Apple methods and I am only surprised that you, 1) found a techie who even knew what a G4 is since there tends to be a poor corporate memory beyond the last 5 years; 2) somebody speaking in their capacity as an Apple employee would recommend a method that is not an Apple-approved solution (nobody on this forum works for Apple so you'll see plenty of creative solutions here as long as they aren't illegal in which case the Terms of Use get slammed on us). Using a bootleg copy of the OS is not something Apple approves even for way back when computers, though they are more willing to turn a blind eye. 😉


Given your ultimate objective which seems to be to erase the drive you could take the drive out (not always the easiest task, depending upon the exact model G4) and use one of those $30 multi-attachment dongles to connect it to another computer and wipe the drive from there. Of course you won't be able to install OSX and should make the buyer aware they are getting a computer without a boot system (which may be a big headache for them).


I am very surprised at the price you say the G4 will fetch but maybe that's just for the UK. For £200 I can get a 2008 vintage computer here.


G4s are by definition computers with PPC processors and those topped out at OSX 10.5.8. 10.6 required an Intel processor, period. 10.5 (and 10.4.11) spanned the generations and was on the earliest Intel Macs.


I take it this is an external but still an Apple Superdrive. I don't know much about those. I am under the impression they work with pretty much anything with USB. If the computer is booted to an OS and the drive has something in it then it should show up on the desktop. I don't have an Apple superdrive, just a third party external optical drive and it works without issue. Maybe the drive itself is bad (sorry if you said somewhere it works -- the editor window doesn't let me read earlier posts to check)? Will it read a regular music CD? Does it appear in Disk Utility?

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User profile for user: Allan Jones
Allan Jones
User level: Level 9
68,528 points

Mar 5, 2018 8:20 AM in response to AppleEE4

Good morning Ian,


Maybe we can resurrect that optical drive. Slot-loading optical drives like in your PowerBook get filthy; the older, the dirtier. Were this my computer, the first thing I would try is a drive cleaning disk. I prefer the "dry" type to avoid introducing cleaning liquid inside the computer.


Such disks are typically US$5-15 at most home electronics stores, computers shops, and office supply outlets that sell computer supplies. You insert them in the drive, let them run until they either eject or display a message that the cleaning is complete.


I have loaned my disk to three friends with PowerBooks or MacBook Pros whose non-working Superdrives had been pronounced absolutely, totally dead and in need of replacement by certified Apple techs. The cost estimates for parts and labor were typically in the range of US$140-150. After running the cleaning disk, all three computers again had fully functional Superdrives and they were still working when my friends sold them on years later.


Even if the disk does not work, it is not a total loss. The same disk that cleans a Superdrive also ministers to any other CD or DVD player, slot- or tray-loading. Maybe even BluRay--check the label. Although I bought mine to use on my computers and those belonging to friends I support, I've used it on the DVD player in my "man cave" and the CD player in my vehicle with good results.


I totally agree with Limnos' assessment of current Apple support people and their corporate memories. Those tend to be entry-level positions with high turnover, and training today would not involve leaning about PowerPC quirks. If I visit an Apple Store I look for someone who appears old enough to have been out of nappies when some of my Macs were developed.

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User profile for user: AppleEE4
AppleEE4 Author
User level: Level 1
5 points

Mar 5, 2018 11:54 AM in response to Limnos

Many thanks for confirming that it will only boot from Firewire drives. May prove a challenge to get hold of one these days though. I do have an old ForMac Firewire CD 48x writer, but its 18v adaptor has gone, so may be able to resurrect that?


Also thanks for confirming OSX 10.5.8 is is limit and do-able on this G4PowerBook. Brill!


I have tonight managed to connect the 27" 2015 iMac & see the PowerBook on each other. I think the answer is likely to be a no go, but just one last shot... Is there any mileage in copying the OSX installer disc from the iMac to the Powerbook and installing direct from the Powerbook? I don't recall you can do it this way, but I'm sure you'd know for sure.


Thanks

Ian



P.S.The Superdrive that won't run, is the built in Apple one by the way. I also have a working External Apple Superdrive but these aren't backwards compatible. It wouldn't even run on my old 2008 intel core 2 duo, 20" iMac! Happy on 2015 27" iMac & 2017 MacBook Pro though. Oh & yes, you sussed it, everything Apple in the UK is horrendously more than the States. We pay new in £'s what you pay in $'s i.e. if a MacBook Pro is $1249 we pay £1249, which when you do the exchange rate conversion is way more. They blame it on 'Brexit' Just an excuse to just up the prices really. Hey ho!

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User profile for user: AppleEE4
AppleEE4 Author
User level: Level 1
5 points

Mar 5, 2018 12:25 PM in response to Limnos

I connected via 'sharing' (wirelessly). Using the external Superdrive via 27" iMac which I'm now successfully copying over OSX 10.4/5 discs. I guess it will be in vein, since I presume you can't boot from within the PowerBook though from what you say. Presumably I will still need that elusive firewire drive!


I did however notice on the Powerbook, in Apps > Utilities there is a > Software Restore App & (also a > Remote Install App). Maybe I could at least restore drivers/update firmware somehow within 10.4 & get the internal superdrive resurrected?

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User profile for user: AppleEE4
AppleEE4 Author
User level: Level 1
5 points

Mar 7, 2018 6:48 AM in response to AppleEE4

Hi Allan,


Thanks for your reply & help.


I had actually given the CD/DVD cleaner idea a go previously, but gave it another go after your reply for the **** of it! No luck I'm afraid on this one. It's a very good & simple tip in general for the community though. Thanks


The internal Superdrive did after a very slow 2-3 minutes actually mount the cleaner, (could see disc icon & tracks within) but was unable to play the music/audio files contained on it. I also tried the same with a music CD & again after, tracks visible, but not playable or importable/copiable & difficult to eject without a restart also. So maybe it could turn out be a read issue with the drive.


Alternatively it's back to my theory that it may just need software/drivers/firmware reinstalling to rule that out for sure - hence needing to wipe & reinstall a clean OSX first. From the threads, it appears without a retro Firewire drive of some kind I maybe stuck now!


You're absolutely right, some of the techies seem very inexperienced & limited to only newer tech, but the guy I saw was one of the more mature, knowledgeable & senior ones I have dealt with previously who understood & helped out with several older OS issues inc writing code for Cups files etc to get older printers running & so on. So I accepted his advice as solid, although seems contrary to advice in the threads.


I have the OSX 10.3/.4/.5 discs so just need someone in the Christchurch area of UK with a Firewire compatible drive now..Hmmm! Defo going to be a big challenge!!


Thanks to you others anyway..

Ian

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User profile for user: Jan Hedlund
Jan Hedlund
User level: Level 7
22,117 points

Mar 8, 2018 4:24 AM in response to AppleEE4

Hi,


>I do have an old ForMac Firewire CD 48x writer, but its 18v adaptor has gone


If that drive has a standard connector, you may be able to use a universal power adapter (with an appropriate output voltage and current, and the correct plug). That way, you could possibly use available CDs to wipe the hard disk and install a fresh (old) system. Perhaps even a Lubuntu live CD (one of the earlier CD versions for PowerPC) or something similar.


Otherwise, as Allan Jones indicated, FireWire DVD drives can sometimes be found online (apparently, there is one LaCie right now in the UK at a well-known auction site).

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User profile for user: AppleEE4
AppleEE4 Author
User level: Level 1
5 points

Mar 24, 2018 2:52 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Thanks Jan,


UPDATE:

Managed to get an alternative power adaptor, but my Firewire drive turned out to be terminal!


However unlucky with the LaCie, but a good friend located another Firewire/USB 2.00 CD/DVD writer on that well known auction site e... & secretly bid on it & very kindly bought it for me! He said it was a bargain. For the record on the community it also runs happily on the 2015, 27" iMac via USB & on a 2017 13" MacBook Pro via a USB to USB C adaptor, so a double bonus.


Great news I was able to use the OSX 10.3 original Grey PB disc to restore first, then the Black OSX10.4 disc which wiped & fresh installed a new OS ready up to the 'Welcome' screen for a new set up. So sweet success & kindness in one! This additionally confirms a Firewire drive was a must as per Limnos recommendation. Thanks Limnos


I was unable to use a 2 part White OSX10.5 disc as I think it was non specific to the Powerbook. The Powerbook itself meets all the 10.5 requirements as described on the 10.5 discs OS read me, which supports Everymac's info that it will run up to a max of OSX10.5. Just need that final powerbook specific 10.5 for ultimate success. Finally, the original internal superdrive did not get resolved with new software, although discs will now spin up & mount eventually, but not playable/writable, so it seems the drive was kaput!


Thanks to everyone who has helped me & to a very kind friend.


SUMMARY: Unable to get SuperDrive working - Firewire Essential - Did Wipe PowerBook - Didn't Install the latest OSX10.5.8, but did install clean OSX 10.4 to 'Welcome' (updatable to 10.4.11 within the software update beyond the Welcome screen)

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Can't get an old G4 PowerBook's Superdrive to read discs so can wipe & update to clean OSX10.5.8? Help please?

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