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New recordings are lost after reopening, just empty tracks are left

When I save and reopen, new audio recordings are lost. The older takes are there, new takes are a flat line! During recording everything behaves normal. Many hours of recording are gone. Very dangerous bug. As soon as 1 take is damaged, the entire project file is broken. The only thing I could do is revert to a backup version. But then, after a few takes, it happens again.


All audio recording fails after that point (and you only notice it after save+close+open). Made new tracks with a totally different name. Nope, they are blank too. I deleted a lot of unused takes. Nope. I tried exporting as a new project. Nope.


So I have a song I worked on for months and this bug has made it impossible to proceed on it.


The only thing I can do is say bye bye to edit options with older takes, export it as single tracks and rebuild the entire mix from there. Which is hugely destructive.


What do I know already?

I opened the song package contents, and found out the "lost" audio files are there (I listened to confirm), they just don't show up in the comp folders and dont show up in the audio bin. I also know there seems to be some kind of hard limit, after that it just fails to record, there are no odd things in between. Juist record, sometimes undo, and play back.


There are no error reports anywhere when this problem occurs. I did notice a few times that when I save, a dialog comes up that reports it's copying audio files, it goes very fast but it looks like it copies over 100 audio files in there. This does not always happen, maybe in about 1 of 10 cases.


I use logic 10.3.3 for the most part, upgraded to 10.4.1 but that made no difference.


I have a project I worked on for 9 months. There are have been more than 1000 audio files in there, at least 4/3 have been deleted from the project again later. The problem occurred with recording live drums, recorded on 15 tracks.

MacBook Pro with Retina display, OS X El Capitan (10.11.6), null

Posted on May 19, 2018 11:17 AM

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Posted on May 21, 2018 12:33 AM

Solved as follows: Simplify, simplify, simplify. Radically. Please read the precautions below before hacking away in your song!


What I did:

  • I went through all comps. Removed every take I'm never gonna use which is 90%. Comps got a lot simpler, mostly 2, 3 or 4 takes.
  • Where possible flattened to regions to single takes and removed all others.
  • In one case exported a complex comp to new track and deleted the original comp (export it, don't use flatten&merge, it is unreliable on complex comps)
  • I had live drums, 11 tracks (edited as group), which had become a patchwork of takes starting at many different places in the song. Times 11. After removing takes that won't ever be used, I cut the entire comp in half at a strategic place (just with the scissors tool) and this made each half a lot simpler again. This may well have been a culprit.
  • I ran into sketchy looking vocal tracks comps, multi-mic tracks that were recorded simultaneously but the structure was different, had empty takes and lengths that made no sense. Yucky. Obviously a bug. These may have been a culprit. Cleaned and exported to new track, then used the glue tool, this causes a new single-take file. Removed the original comp altogether.
  • After a round of cleanup I did "select unused" + "delete files" in the audio bin to destructively throw them out.


Song project got 12x smaller and starts up much faster.

So far new audio recording goes ok. Regulary quit/reopened to be 100% sure, but so far so good! Phew.


Logic's track/region/comp system is still fragile and full of bugs. Especially if a some parts were recorded separate first and later recorded in 1 go on the same track. Logic does not like that. Complex overlaps makes Logic go messy.


Precautions:

  1. Export alternative to new Logic project file first. This will leave out any files that should have been deleted but weren't. So whatever mistake I make I have an original to repeat it. Plus: It cut file size in half! (hey Logic, what is that mess coming from? Undo takes?)
  2. Set number of backup versions to 30 in the general preferences. Save often, so you have options. Extra storage is negligible, song files are just a few MB.
  3. I did the entire procedure in a few smaller cleanup rounds, so I could remember what I did and review it.
  4. In between each round, quit/reopen Logic sometimes to see if song was still intact.
  5. Played the song to be sure no tracks had shifted while the wave forms appear normal on screen; another bad habit of Logic. Made sure that just before each "delete files" I had a backup to my time machine.


@Apple: Logic's track/region/comp/take structure is super fragile. Please refactor to more modern, robust data structure. Data damage is very expensive in professional recording. This took me an entire week. This was a problem in 2008 and it still is a problem in 2018.

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5 replies
Question marked as Best reply

May 21, 2018 12:33 AM in response to Bas Groot

Solved as follows: Simplify, simplify, simplify. Radically. Please read the precautions below before hacking away in your song!


What I did:

  • I went through all comps. Removed every take I'm never gonna use which is 90%. Comps got a lot simpler, mostly 2, 3 or 4 takes.
  • Where possible flattened to regions to single takes and removed all others.
  • In one case exported a complex comp to new track and deleted the original comp (export it, don't use flatten&merge, it is unreliable on complex comps)
  • I had live drums, 11 tracks (edited as group), which had become a patchwork of takes starting at many different places in the song. Times 11. After removing takes that won't ever be used, I cut the entire comp in half at a strategic place (just with the scissors tool) and this made each half a lot simpler again. This may well have been a culprit.
  • I ran into sketchy looking vocal tracks comps, multi-mic tracks that were recorded simultaneously but the structure was different, had empty takes and lengths that made no sense. Yucky. Obviously a bug. These may have been a culprit. Cleaned and exported to new track, then used the glue tool, this causes a new single-take file. Removed the original comp altogether.
  • After a round of cleanup I did "select unused" + "delete files" in the audio bin to destructively throw them out.


Song project got 12x smaller and starts up much faster.

So far new audio recording goes ok. Regulary quit/reopened to be 100% sure, but so far so good! Phew.


Logic's track/region/comp system is still fragile and full of bugs. Especially if a some parts were recorded separate first and later recorded in 1 go on the same track. Logic does not like that. Complex overlaps makes Logic go messy.


Precautions:

  1. Export alternative to new Logic project file first. This will leave out any files that should have been deleted but weren't. So whatever mistake I make I have an original to repeat it. Plus: It cut file size in half! (hey Logic, what is that mess coming from? Undo takes?)
  2. Set number of backup versions to 30 in the general preferences. Save often, so you have options. Extra storage is negligible, song files are just a few MB.
  3. I did the entire procedure in a few smaller cleanup rounds, so I could remember what I did and review it.
  4. In between each round, quit/reopen Logic sometimes to see if song was still intact.
  5. Played the song to be sure no tracks had shifted while the wave forms appear normal on screen; another bad habit of Logic. Made sure that just before each "delete files" I had a backup to my time machine.


@Apple: Logic's track/region/comp/take structure is super fragile. Please refactor to more modern, robust data structure. Data damage is very expensive in professional recording. This took me an entire week. This was a problem in 2008 and it still is a problem in 2018.

May 19, 2018 1:47 PM in response to Indyuser

If permissions were a problem, it would not happen halfway a recording session at a predictable point like I describe. Also I would see error dialogs all over the place when reopening the project. Nonetheless I checked, permissions for succesful and failed recordings are the exact same: r/w for me, read for group and world. Other projects in the same folder function just fine. In case you wonder; it is a package and I have over 300 GB of disk space left.

May 23, 2018 9:57 AM in response to Bas Groot

Bas Groot wrote:



Logic's track/region/comp/take structure is super fragile. Please refactor to more modern, robust data structure. Data damage is very expensive in professional recording. This took me an entire week. This was a problem in 2008 and it still is a problem in 2018.


This is a very important point.

Take folders are indeed very fragile, to the point where undo will not restore the previous state.

Due to this behavior I always save my comp, edit the comp, then duplicate and flatten or export the edits for further audio editing.

New recordings are lost after reopening, just empty tracks are left

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