What does iCloud Photos Library synch?

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What does iCloud Photos Library synch?

The Apple Support web site says that when iCloud Photo Library is enabled it finds and then synchs to the cloud ALL the photos and videos on the Mac. I thought it was intended to synch the photos and videos in the Mac Photos Library. So I chatted to Apple support and asked "Will iCloud Photo Library synch the photos and videos on my Mac hard disk that aren't in the iMac Photos Library, eg folders of jpegs in the Picture Folder or on the desktop?". To my surprise the Support person said "yes, it will find and synch ALL the photos and videos on the Mac".

Is this really so? Someone who really understands iCloud Photo Library please help?

I only want to use iCloud Photos Library to synch between the photos I take with the iPhone or choose to put in the Mac Photos Library so I can see them on the iPhone, NOT the 50GB of archival photos I have in folders in the iMac Pictures folder.

I don't want to turn it on and then find it is trying to upload 50GB of archives.

iPad Air 2 WiFi, Cellular, iOS 11.4, iMac with current MacOS

Posted on Oct 8, 2018 10:52 PM

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Answer 1

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léonie

Level 10

200,621 points

Oct 9, 2018 2:52 AM in response to rjp123

So I chatted to Apple support and asked "Will iCloud Photo Library synch the photos and videos on my Mac hard disk that aren't in the iMac Photos Library, eg folders of jpegs in the Picture Folder or on the desktop?". To my surprise the Support person said "yes, it will find and synch ALL the photos and videos on the Mac".

Is this really so? Someone who really understands iCloud Photo Library please help?

Which iCloud website are you referring to? There must be a mistake on the page that needs fixing.

iCloud Photo Library can only sync the items (photos, Live Photos, videos) in the library, that has been enabled as your System Photo Library and iCloud Photo Library. iCloud Photo Library. Only one of your Photos Libraries can sync with iCloud Photo Library - your system photo library. See: System Photo Library overview for Photos on Mac - Apple Support

If you want, you can create additional photo libraries and store them in any location on your Mac or on an external storage device. However, keep these things in mind:

You can work with the photos in only one library at a time. To work with photos in another library, you must switch between photo libraries.

If you switch to a library other than the System Photo Library, the changes you make are not reflected in iCloud Photos, because iCloud Photos only syncs changes from your System Photo Library. If you create any other libraries, make sure they are backed up using Time Machine.

Set up and use iCloud Photos - Apple Support

Perhaps the support person confused this with iCloud Drive. Your Mac can also sync your Desktop folder and the Documents folder with iCloud as a part of iCloud Drive, if you enable iCloud Drive and Desktop and Documents syncing. If you are keeping folders with photos on iCloud Drive or the Desktop or in the Documents folder, they can sync with iCloud Drive.

But your Pictures folder is definitely not syncing with iCloud, neither with iCloud Photo Library nor with iCloud Drive.

To use iCloud Photos for selected photos:

Make one of your Photos Libraries your System Photo Library in Photos > Preferences > general and enable iCloud Photo Library in Photos > Preferences > iCloud.
Import all photos you want to sync with iCloud to your other devices to this library. Keep Photos you do not want in iClod outside this library or in folders, that do not sync with iCloud Drive, if you enabled iCloud Drive as well.

I am trying to keep my iCloud Photo Library small - only my favorite photos or the photos I am currently working on are in my System Photo Library and syncing between my devices. Other photos are archived in separate libraries on an external drive.

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Answer 2

léonie

Level 10

200,621 points

Oct 9, 2018 1:29 AM in response to rjp123

It looks like the support person has been confused by the document as well and rarely used iCloud Photos.

I can confirm that my iCloud Photo Library only contains the items that I import to my system photo libraries on my Macs and the photos and videos I take on my iPhones or save to Photos on my iPhones,

If you set up a photos Library for your partner to use as the system photo library and as an iCloud Photo Library, only this library will sync with iCloud. She should have her own user account on the Mac, so you can use her AppleiD for syncing with iCloud Photos. Also, the system Photo Library is special. Only this library is visible in the Media Browser. So if you want to access the Photos Library from other applications or the screen saver, you will only see the current system photo library.

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Answer 3

léonie

Level 10

200,621 points

Oct 9, 2018 12:35 AM in response to léonie

Do you mean this site? Set up and use iCloud Photos - Apple Support

Is this the sentence "iCloud Photos automatically keeps every photo and video you take in iCloud, so you can access your library from any device, anytime you want"?

The "Any photo you take ..." is certainly misleading. It is not true for a Mac, only for the handheld mobile devices (iPhone, iPad), where every photo you take ends up automatically in your Photos Library. This is very different on a Mac, where you can have several photo libraries and import to different libraries.

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Answer 4

rjp123 Author

Level 1

101 points

Oct 9, 2018 12:51 AM in response to léonie

Thanks Leonie,

You being level 10 and all, I will assume you are right! That is pretty much what I expected. The web site is Set up and use iCloud Photos - Apple Support, and leads off with "iCloud Photos automatically keeps every[!] photo and video you take in iCloud". It is a little ambiguous and I really only contacted Support to confirm it was only the library, then had the [extract of] chat with Support included below. See underlined bits. Support person was either confused or poorly trained.

Like you I wanted to keep the Synched library manageable. It is for my partner who does ALL her photography with the iPhone and arranges the photos into albums on the iPhone. Using iCloud Photo Library seems to be the only way to back up her iPhone photos to the iMac in a way which preserves her album structure and allows her to browse them on the Mac in the same way she does on the iPhone.

Me

Now about iCloud Photos. It only synchs what is in the Photos App on the iMac right? Not (eg) photos in the Pictures folder?

Me

I ask cos the web site says "all the photos and videos on your ..."

Apple

Yes everything in Photos.

Me

Nothing else in Pictures folder

Apple

It is going to sync all the photos and videos on the Mac.

Me

Including photos in the Pictures folder but NOT in the Photos Library???

Me

Or photos I left on the desktop?

Apple

Every photo and video you have on the Mac no matter where it is located.

Me

That doesn't make any sense. How will it know how to arrange them in the photos library. How will photos that were synched from outside the library on the Mac appear in photos on the iPhone?

Apple

iCloud syncs the photos from the Mac and they go into the iCloud sever and then to your other if you have them enabled.

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Answer 5

rjp123 Author

Level 1

101 points

Oct 9, 2018 2:52 AM in response to léonie

Thanks Again Leonie,

It will be simpler - there need only be one Photo Library on this iMac (I have a separate iMac), so it will really be the means for saving / sharing her photos between iPhone and iMac.

You may also know the answer to another question I was thinking of posting, namely does iCloud Photo Library cope properly with nested folders and albums? Eg on my iMac, I have albums within a 2 level folder structure.

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Answer 6

léonie

Level 10

200,621 points

Oct 9, 2018 3:23 AM in response to rjp123

Eg on my iMac, I have albums within a 2 level folder structure.

The folder structure will sync to the iPhone. I have some nested folders, two levels deep, and they are syncing. But only standard albums and folders will sync, not smart albums some of my folders are empty on the iPhone, because they only contain smart albums. on my Mac

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Answer 7

rjp123 Author

Level 1

101 points

Oct 9, 2018 11:54 PM in response to léonie

Thanks Leonie,

Not sure if this is something you know about, but I also posted a question about iCloud Drive to a different community yesterday and didn't get any useful responses yet. Perhaps you know the answer .... this was my other post:

I am thinking of using iCloud Drive as off-site back up for the iMac Documents folder and Desktop. By "BACKUP" I mean that I want my files to be on my iMac hard drive AND stored in the cloud. The Apple support topics say that once the "Documents and Desktop" option is selected, the folders / files are MOVED to the Cloud. For the IT literate, MOVE and COPY are different actions. So I chatted to Apple support to clarify. The Support Person assured me that anything I place in iCloud Drive, either explicitly by dragging a folder to it, or automatically by selecting the "Documents and Desktop" option, is MOVED, ie a copy is placed in the cloud and the original is deleted from the iMac, and then downloaded any time I want to use it. And this occurs whether or not the "Optimize Storage" option is selected, and whether or not the iMac hard drive is nearing full.

Is this really how it works? Can someone who really knows about iCloud help me with this?

BTW, same support person as gave incorrect advice on iCloud Photo Library.

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Answer 8

léonie

Level 10

200,621 points

Oct 10, 2018 12:54 AM in response to rjp123

The behaviour of iCloud Drive changed considerably with macOS 10.12 Sierra, when "Optimize Storage" and the syncing of the Desktop and Documents folder had been introduced.

On Yosemite and El Capitan, iCloud Drive has been only a syncing service. All documents you dragged to iCloud Drive in the Finder have been stored in iCloud, but your Mac kept local shadow copies in your user library, in the folder

~/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs

This folder is backed up by Time Machine.

But now , on macOS 10.12 Sierra or newer, if you enable "Optimize Mac Storage" for iCloud Drive, not all iCloud Drive documents will be stored locally. The shadow copies of older documents and data will be removed, if storage is needed, so the Time Machine backup will not include them.

I am keeping "Optimize Storage" disabled and all my iCloud Drive files are mirrored locally on my Mac in ~/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs. So I can restore them from my Time Machine backup, if need be.

But if you want iCloud drive as a second offsite backup, copy the documents to iCloud Drive and do not move them there. To copy the files, hold down the options key while dragging the files to iCloud Drive.

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Answer 9

léonie

Level 10

200,621 points

Oct 11, 2018 12:34 AM in response to rjp123

Why have they done this for iCloud Drive?

change the default drag and drop action from copy to move

then copy the item back and hide it on the Mac

then delete it from the Mac if space is short

For me, it is logical. iCloud Drive is not an external drive. The default for dragging and dropping between folders on the same device has always been a "Move" not a copy. And iCloud Drive is a collection of special special folders on your Mac that are syncing with iCloud (iCloud Drive, Desktop, Documents). So you move items to these folders, when you drag them there and do not copy them. It would not be very intuitive if dragging an item to my Desktop folder or to Documents folder would make a copy on my Desktop and not move it there.

iCloud Drive is primarily a syncing system to keep the iCloud Drive folder on all devices identical. This syncing is done in two steps.

I move some items to a folder that is syncing with iCloud. Then this item will be uploaded to iCloud, so the master copy in of iCloud Drive in iCloud is in sync with my Mac.
Now the change to iCloud Drive will sync to the other devices and update their local iCloud drive folders.

We are always working with our local iCloud Drive folder - moving item there, updating them. iCloud drive is working in the background to sync this with the master copy in iCloud.

Optimize Storage is complicating things, because it will temporarily delete files from the Mac and retrieve from iCloud, when we need them. I would never use this "optimize" service, because it is causing a lot of network traffic to get my documents back, and is making it a lot more difficult to keep a backup of my mac. And I would not be able to work with my documents at all, when I have no network access.

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Answer 10

rjp123 Author

Level 1

101 points

Oct 11, 2018 12:52 AM in response to léonie

Leonie, I accept the logic that way. I was starting from the premise that the iCloud is by definition "external" rather than "internal" to the Mac. Actually the cloud is external, and the language in the Apple web sites / and in the Preferences page encourages that thinking. But the way you describe it makes more sense. If Apple described the iCloud Drive as a special folder on the Mac that is sync'd with the cloud then drag and drop = move would also make perfect sense.

Thanks again for all your help.

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Answer 11

léonie

Level 10

200,621 points

Oct 11, 2018 1:57 AM in response to rjp123

iCloud Drive is a weird mongrel. We use it like a local folder and are seeing only our local folder, but the master copies are in iCloud. Apple's documents are emphasising mostly the cloud aspect, but the user experience is more like working with local folders that are syncing across devices, with iCloud being the communication center and common storage for the syncing.

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Answer 12

rjp123 Author

Level 1

101 points

Oct 22, 2018 4:18 PM in response to léonie

Hi Leonie,

Following our exchange here I set up iCloud Photo Library for my partner and when her iPhone is on wifi it is slowly uploading 10s of GB of photos from the iPhone. And much faster downloading back to the iMac. We have low upload speeds here. All good as far as photos is concerned.

However, the albums she has created on her iPhone are NOT appearing in the iMac Photo Library. This is alarming. As per my earlier post "It is for my partner who does ALL her photography with the iPhone and arranges the photos into albums on the iPhone. Using iCloud Photo Library seems to be the only way to back up her iPhone photos to the iMac in a way which preserves her album structure and allows her to browse them on the Mac in the same way she does on the iPhone.

Have I been misled by Apple here?

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Answer 13

rjp123 Author

Level 1

101 points

Oct 10, 2018 4:52 PM in response to léonie

Ok. I understand that bit - have tried it now on my iMac (using Mojave). The Support Person was partly correct. If I drag an item onto iCloud Drive the action defaults to a MOVE and not a COPY. That seems to me a very unintuitive and dangerous design change. If I drag an item onto any other external drive (eg USB stick or a shared drive with write privileges) the action defaults to a COPY. People are gonna be surprised by this.

I also find Optimise Mac Storage strange. The description in System Preferences says "The full contents of iCloud Drive will be stored on this Mac if you have enough space. Older Documents will be stored only in iCloud when space is needed." The first sentence seems to be literally correct. I MOVE an item to iCloud Drive by drag and drop then it is MIRROR COPIED back to the iMac in a Mobile Documents folder in my normally hidden User\Library folder.

Why have they done this for iCloud Drive?

change the default drag and drop action from copy to move
then copy the item back and hide it on the Mac
then delete it from the Mac if space is short

Why not leave the logic as it was, where drag and drop is a copy. At least then the User can find the file on the Mac if internet is off. Which in some parts of the world it is from time to time. I guess that way they can control the mirroring without the user messing up the document mirror status by messing with the mirrored files on the Mac.

So after all that, if I want to use iCloud Drive simply as a secure off site backup then I should explicitly copy folders using the Option key and leave Optimise Mac Storage turned off.

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What does iCloud Photos Library synch?

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