h264 vs mpeg4

I think you can find better solutions for a small amount of money. See Karsten's post
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=4205921#4205921

I agree w/99% of the recommended preference order except;

I personally like the DVD player to camcorder/converter to computer/iMovie option (cost = $0).

or

If you have a DVD player/recorder with a firewire port you can connect it to your computer as you would a camcorder or converter and record the DVD into iMovie that way. Of course you'd have to start the DVD Player manually, then click the iMovie import button.

H.264 is the codec used in MPEG-4.

Well, according to Apple, anyway.. (click that blue link)

But I'd suggest - for any other purpose - using MPEG-4, as fewer devices may be aware of the newer MPEG-4 Pt 10 (H.264) codec, than will be aware of the till-now standard MPEG-4 Pt 2, which was the predecessor to H.264.

But for use in iMovie, choose H.264.

"..any quality improvement in using h264 ... using Apple TV to stream stuff to my HD tv.."

I'd guess so: H.264 is touted by Apple as presently being more or less the 'ultimate' codec - very scaleable; able to show very sharp pics on both small (mobile phone) and large (HDTV) screens. It's used in the current QuickTime as the best option for scaling up and down, I think. And an Apple TV is an Apple product. So I'd think that H.264 would be the better bet.

..But that's just my guess..

I guess I read more into the question than was asked.

H264 is a very good compression codec, I just want to know the advantages of taking a VOB(MPEG2) file(s) from a "Standard Definition DVD" and converting it to MP4/H264 then bringing it into iMovie, opposed to converting the VOB(MPEG2) file(s) to a DV file and bringing that into iMovie.

Would there be any disadvanges involved?

Always eager to learn better techniques.

We-ell, adeleander said that the idea would be "..using Apple TV to stream stuff to my HD tv.."

If you're streaming DV ..hmm: how do you move it around, at 13GB per hour?

Whereas, squeezed down to H.264, it's far simpler to stream - I'd have thought - from a Mac to an AppleTV (which, I think, has a hard disc inside, so you wouldn't want to clutter that with DV if you can get away with MPEG-4/H.264) and then onwards to an HDTV.

I'm sure that others will have other - and maybe better - ideas..

(..extra copy posted in error, sorry..)

David,

Sorry, for the misunderstanding, my question was based on the first two sentences of the first post in this thread.

Im currently ripping some old home movies I have on DVD to the mac to edit with iMovie. Im using handbrake to rip the DVD's, and can either do h264 or mpeg4.

I understand "Handbrake" is free, but I thought starting with DV would provide better quality.

It seems as though there's and extra step invovled (ripping to mp4/h264) that may result in a quality hit.

Sorry not to have replied to you before, Roy.

As you said, adeleander's first remarks were "..Im currently ripping some old home movies I have on DVD to the mac to edit with iMovie. Im using handbrake to rip the DVD's, and can either do h264 or mpeg4.." ..so I gave an opinion about the choice between H.264 and MPEG-4, as one of those seemed to be what he'd - let's call adeleander 'him' - intended to use.

Your suggestion of using the video-out connection of his DVD player (..he didn't mention it, but he probably has one..) via a camcorder and into iMovie is nice and simple. It does a similar kind of conversion (..of the MPEG-2 on the DVDs into DV..) using hardware instead of software re-encoding, so it gives good quality, and it works in 'real time' ..and it's also free - if he's already got the equipment, such as a camcorder or converter.

adeleander also said, in the original question, "..Now I cant notice much diffrence myself between the 2 files.." so I gave an opinion on the two codecs.

I didn't mean to "hi-jack" the thread, or repudiate your answer. I was just replying to the specific question about "..either do h264 or mpeg4.."

Connecting directly to a camcorder to import (..via video-in and then out through FireWire..) is an excellent way to do it. If I've something on a home-burned DVD which I want to post on the web I often feed the output of the DVD player into an Archos pocket video recorder ..one of these:

or

..they record in, erm, DivX or MPEG-4, and give a very sharp, high-quality, low filesize format which is exceptionally sharp, and which can be copied in real-time from the original DVD. Here's an example of a home-made DVD (..you can see the 'Play' button onscreen, and after I've chosen 'Play' from the DVD's intro menu, the movie/slideshow starts properly..) which I played out through the DVD player's video-out, into an Archos recorder, and then posted the resultant video - in a small playback window - on the web.

So I'm all in favour of using the simplest method which gives good results!

It was simply that HandBrake offers only either MPEG-4 OR H.264 as output options..



..and it doesn't offer DV (..although MPEG Streamclip does offer DV as an output..) so I just gave an opinion about the relative merits of those two codecs.

Your method, through the video-out connection, does also involve some transcoding - it takes the original digital MPEG-2 compressed file, builds separate video frames from it, sends all that out as analogue 'composite' video (in which all the different video colour and timing signals are merged together) ..and then the composite video has to be separated again in the camcorder/converter input, and be transcoded into digital signals again to go out down the FireWire cable into iMovie.

The HandBrake or Streamclip method keeps everything in the digital realm, and just changes the constituents of the digital files.

But I don't think there's a hard-and-fast rule about which is the better way to do it ..one method or the other may give video which looks subjectively 'better' than the other, depending on, say, the quality of the DVD player's signal processing, the length and quality of video cable, the 'contrasty-ness' of the original material and how much movement there is in it, etc.

Others, Matti for instance, may have other - and better! - opinions.

I didn't mean to "hi-jack" the thread, or repudiate your answer. I was just replying to the specific question about "..either do h264 or mpeg4.."

David I consider you one of legends of the iMovie forum and have learned a great deal from your posts. I'm sorry my question was taken this way. I probably could have worded it better. -:)

Your response to the original poster was right on the money. And in no way did I expect you to defend how/why you addressed the question anyway you deemed appropriate.

I have to much respect for your opinion and would never criticize, become upset or sensitive to such a trivial issue. Heck, my posts have been rejected, corrected and neglected many times over the years - no big deal.

The OP's decision on preferred method is of little or no consequence to me. I've noticed when "free" is added to the equation, best practices become a secondary consideration.

When I try to assist/advise and I see a technique/method being employed that I think may not produce optimun results I try to address this issue first (the OP did indicate his source material was not the best quality).

After I answered the OP's post I considered it a done deal, the end, finite. My focus was redirected to exploring the pro's and cons of editing mp4/h264 in iMovie opposed to DV.

I actually called myself picking your brain for your views on a possible quality hit, going from;

vob to mp4 to imovie

versus

vob to dv to iMovie

Regardless of the final distribution format (mp4, DVD, Tape, etc.) I always thought you go in with the best quality possible, then edit, then conduct a comparison test on your final output(at least that's how I would do it).

If "Handbrake' produces results comparable to the other methods then I'll recommend it in my suggestions.

Then again if you think about it, If "Handbrake" produces comparable results and is free, are the other methods even worth mentioning?

I don't think there's a hard-and-fast rule about which is the better way to do it ..one method or the other may give video which looks subjectively 'better' than the other

Thanks for sharing your opinion, I really didn't intend on my question becoming so involved, but appreciate the examples, effort and time you contributed.

"..exploring the pro's and cons of editing mp4/h264 in iMovie opposed to DV.."

I'd been away for a few days, and also away from my main editing Mac (..but now that I've just put a bigger - 160GB - hard drive in this 12" PowerBook, I could go back to editing (standard-def) on this again..) so if I have a chance today or tomorrow I'll try comparing the two codecs for editing within iMovie.

Got a bit on my plate at the moment, but I'll try to report back a.s.a.p..