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dvandam Author

Level 1

0 points

73GB Seagate SCSI Drive Won't Mount (LONG)

Most of what is below was originally posted by me in mancalledsunn's; thread.

"Trying to replace my SCSI HD or Replace with an ATA in my B&W G3"

I've changed it some to post in this new thread.

Sorry for any confusion created by posting twice and thanks for any help.

--------------------------------------------------

My B&W came with 9.1 GB Quantum SCSI drive running off of an Adaptec 2940U2B Ultra 2 LVD/SE PCI SCSI card and I just added an eBay aquired "new pull" 73GB Seagate Cheetah SCSI drive to that particular SCSI bus (there are two other SCSI cards in two other PCI slots).

The 9.1 GB SCSI drive is in bay #1, a 10GB ATA drive is in bay #2 and I put the Seagate SCSI drive in bay #3 (bit of a shoehorn at 1-1/2 inches tall).

The Seagate drive is 80 pin with the converter card Grant mentioned (in the other thread) to adapt it to one of the available 68 pin connectors on the ribbon that connects the 9.1 GB drive to the SCSI card.

With the 9.1 GB drive set to ID=0 (no jumpers) I tried the Seagate jumpered to ID=1, ID=2 and ID=3, each in turn. There are no other SCSI devices on this SCSI bus, I have a SCSI scanner set to ID=5 but plugged into one of the other PCI SCSI cards which means it's on a separtate SCSI bus and should therefore be irrelevant SCSI ID-wise.

In all three instances, not only would the Seagate drive not mount but the 9.1 GB Quantum drive (boot drive) would not mount either. In other words, with the seagate attached, that entire SCSI bus is not functioning???!

At startup, after a few blinks of the dreaded flashing question mark (the B&W is hunting for OS9 on the invisible 9.1 GB boot drive) it defaulted to booting from OSX on the ATA drive and then only the ATA drive would mount.

If I shutdown and disconnect the seagate SCSI drive and reboot, the 9.1 GB SCSI drive would then (as the designated boot drive) startup the B&W and of course mount per normal along with the ATA drive.

It seems to me the two SCSI drives are behaving as though they both have same SCSI ID even though they don't.

Are there any other obvious/not so obvious considerations that influence this behavior?

Thanks for any insight.

Dennis van Dam

PS

Per Grants suggestion,(in other thread) I downloaded;

60409- Ultra SCSI Card 1.2 Firmware Update: Document and Software

but I haven't installed it because the Read Me repeatedly indicates it wants OS 8.6 present to execute the upgrade and pointedly makes no reference to any version of OS9 which is what I'm running. I'm thinking because I'm running OS 9.2.2 that I have more recent firmware and could be gumming up the works by installing the referenced and possibly outdated 8.6 compliant firmware?

---------------------------------------

Now if the above isn't long winded enough, I've gone on to try the following since I first posted most of whats above in the other thread about 24 hours ago. (Again sorry for the confusion)

I designated the 10GB ATA drive/OSX as the startup drive.

I took the 9.1 GB Quantum SCSI drive out altogether and in it's place in bay #1 connected the 73 GB Seagate SCSI drive.

I then restarted the B&W 15 times, each time changing the SCSI ID of the seagate from ID=0 through ID= 15 skipping ID=7 since that is assigned to the PCI SCSI card running that bus. I realize with the seagate as the only device on the that SCSI bus, that SCSI ID should not be an issue but I did't know what else to try. Anyway it was all for naught because the SCSI drive would not mount with any ID.

With the B&W booted in OSX, I also opened Disk Utility and it cannot see the seagate drive either (to format it if that's what is needed).

Anyway, I'm a day into this now and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dennis van Dam

400mhz G3 B&W G3 500mhz G3 Pismo

Posted on Mar 25, 2007 12:19 AM

Top-ranking reply

Eustace Mendis

Level 7

25,416 points

Posted on Mar 25, 2007 8:36 AM

With the B&W booted in OSX, I also opened Disk Utility and it cannot see the seagate drive either (to format it if that's what is needed).

Does OS X see the card? Before X can see the drive, it has to see the card. (What you need to do to get that to happen depends on the card brand and model.) In my experience, once the card is working, X is excellent at recognizing scsi devices.

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17 replies

dvandam Author

Level 1

0 points

Mar 29, 2007 5:11 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

If you are looking for a steady, reliable source for
SCSI stuff, the vendor below has lots of different
items. They may not be the absolute cheapest, but
they do not charge gold-plated prices, and offer
substantial warranties.

They also have a large presence on eBay, but prices
there may be about the same.

http://www.mcpb.com/

Their top item under 68-to-80 adapters should do the
trick for US$10 plus shipping. It is rated for U/160
and U/320 operation. SCA-80 and SCA2-80 are
plug-compatible. My understanding is that SCA2 has a
few more safeguards for "hot-plugging", such as
longer ground pins and slightly better alignment
mechanism.

Grant,

An MCPriceBreakers eBay auction for the 68-to-80 adapter you pointed me at ($9.95) was technically very informative. (In fact I've found a great deal of technical info on eBay including the PDF manual for my particular Seagate.)

However, I'm also considering potential that my termination needs to be changed and along with that, would need new 68 pin ribbon as well (otherwise can't connect new terminator).

All told that was going to cost close to what I have in the Seagate to begin with. Was going in circles trying to figure at what point to cut losses and give up.

So I called the man at MCPriceBreaker to ask stupid questions and he was no end of technical insight regarding the peculiarities of 80 pin drives on 68 pin buses.

To summarize;

He does not think I'm improperly terminated. (Apple OEM LVD terminator should work)

The converter card I have ought to work but;

Make sure SCSI ID jumpers on BOTH the 80-68 pin converter card AND the Seagate drive are set to the SAME ID. Apparently the jumpers on the converter card don't always supercede jumpers on the drive. In other words if I jumper the the converter card SCSI ID to ID=1 and leave the hard drive to which the converter card is attached unjumpered defaulting it to ID=0, there could be a problem.

(Perhaps easiest way to address this is leave converter card and Seagate unjumpered matching them at ID=0 and then jumper the Quantum drive to ID=1)

Also if it's not already the default, set jumpers to tell drive to spin up immediately, there could be fallout from delayed startup (but the man did not elaborate as to the nature of fallout)

(Just occured to me, wonder if converter card to hard drive "jumper matching" rule applies here as well?....will have to call the man back once I figure if jumper has to be set.)

Failing that, there may be "general problem" with converter card not passing everything through that needs to be. He did not specifcally speak to the SE vs LVD modes and "grounded pins" situation you suggested might be the case and I didn't have to presence of mind to bring it up (or the ability to articulate it precisely) .

Anyway, for $16.00 bucks I've got the particular 80 to 68 pin converter card you referenced and some small (2MM) jumpers for jumpering the drive itself on the way.

We will see what happens. I will post back on what progess there may be.

Thanks again for everyones replies.

Dennis van Dam

400mhz G3 B&W G3 500mhz G3 Pismo

dvandam Author

Level 1

0 points

Apr 3, 2007 6:43 PM in response to dvandam

Grant,

Problem solved.

Replaceing the SCA 80F/HPDB68F/IDC50M converter card that came with the Seagate SCSI drive with the SCA2-F80HP-68F coverter card from MC PriceBreakers got the Seagate to mount.

So while I can't verify the pinout grounding continuities you described that would tell me conclusively whether the first converter was SE only (I have no way of ID-ing pin numbers) it would seem your theory regarding my terminator being LVD only and my problem converter being SE only is the likely explanation for the Seagate drive not mounting.

I can perhaps verify this further when the ordered 68 pin ribbon with dual mode SE/LVD terminator arrives. If the drive were to mount(in SE mode) with the dual mode terminator and the problem converter card it would reinforce the notion that the problem converter card is SE only. (Even though seller assured me it was both SE and LVD).

Grant thanks for setting me on the right track to getting this straightened out.

I suppose it is less common for garden variety Mac users like me to be fooling with anything SCSI these days, but even so for anybody struggling with SCSI related stuff I would also like to plug MC PriceBreakers.

http://www.mcpb.com/

The guy who answers the phone over there is VERY knowlegable about all things SCSI and is quite willing to share that knowledge at length. That kind of help in the market place is not so easy to come by these days.

Grant thanks again for your help.

Dennis van Dam

73GB Seagate SCSI Drive Won't Mount (LONG)