Getting 68k Mac online

Question

Getting 68k Mac online

Hello,
I have been away for a few months, and at last I have had some time to fiddle with my collection of Old Macs. Just to recap, for those who might remember me. About a year ago I found an old complete IIGS with no software. After realising that I needed something older than my PowerBook G4 to get this software online, I ended up with many G3 and pre G3 computers. The ones that have fascinated me the most were the AIO Performa 575s. I was able to network from an old SEHD through the Performas and to G3 and from the G3 to the newest PBG4. I was however, using the phoneNet plugs that came with one of the bigger acquisitions, and therefore was unable to get the older Macs online.(save for the PowerMacs)
The Performa 575s did have Ethernet ports, but I was unable to network them through this method and after much fiddling I gave up, believing that they may be 3rd party ethernet cards and I had no drivers.
I updated them to OS 8.1 and loaded iCab and an old version of AIM. No matter what I did I could not get it online. Life took over and I let my old friends sit alone in the cold for a few months, when a few days ago, I realised that I had 20 hours of dial-up a month with my ISP, perhaps they could get me online! I obtained the local phone number and was helped set up the proper PPP settings, before I realised I needed a Modem! I thanked the nice and helpful customer Service agent from Earthlink, and went to go look in the pile of cables and connectors for an old external modem and I found 3!
2 of them were 56k modems and one was a 28/33k modem. I hooked up the 56k and under the modem choice there was no direct match but there was one by the same maker. It dialed the number and said it was connected at an unknown rate. When opened MS IE 3.0 it said that it couldn't find the URL, and the server could not be found. I tried the other 56k modem with the same luck and then the 28/33k and it connected at a good speed,but still no luck. I decided to try a clean install of OS8.1. I even did all the setup assistant. this time when I clicked on the browser, it went ahead and established a PPP connection on its own, said i was connected, and then I got the same error message, also the new version of AIM 4.3 I found online appears to be the power PC version.
So here I am at an impasse. Will I ever see my old 68k machine online, or have I missed the boat? is there some setting I am missing, is it possible that I could I even use the ethernet port? Its a great looking machine and even has the old Claris Works email program that I got to work on one of the old Powermacs. Does anyone out there have this old machine online? Also can anyone send me to a website that might have a 68k version of AIM?

Help.
Thanks,
Patrick

PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz Mac OS X (10.4.8) Apple IIGS, iMac '17 flat, G3, LC, Performa et, et

Posted on Apr 8, 2007 6:30 PM

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Answer 1

Apr 8, 2007 6:43 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

RE: Ethernet

Post all the info you have about the Ethernet cards:

Maker's marks, Big Chip id, Hardware ID (6 pairs of hexadecimal digits), Apple System profiler info (that may be too modern for you, I guess).

There a couple of sites where these things can be decoded into the manufacturer, and possibly hooked up with an abandonware driver.

This will take a few days or more, and may come up empty.

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Answer 2

Apr 8, 2007 6:44 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

Try the suggestion at the bottom of this article to see if you have a DNS problem.

90007- Macintosh Manager: DNS Errors in TCP/IP Applications

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Answer 3

Apr 8, 2007 8:05 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

Patrick,

Sounds like you are having fun learning about the old stuff. A customer came into the store requesting a piece of older Mac equipment. When I asked what they needed it for they said that a friend used her Mac Plus to email to Germany. I regret not getting a copy of her configuration to archive for moments like this.

Keep in mind that even a humble Apple IIe and IIc will 'go online' but the method used by the oldest of computers was a bulletin board. A Mac IIsi was our earliest internet Mac. Once our son saw what a quadra would do, he never went back to an '030 chip.

Would you be content with comunication software like MS Works or does it need to be a web browser?

Ji˜m

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Answer 4

Apr 9, 2007 9:47 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

Thanks Grant and Jim for the quick replies.
I was going to send you a picture Grant, because frankly, there are a million separate # on this thing, however every pic i took is too blurry. The numbers that seem most relavent are:

..There is a chip that says Assante
LC200028
there is another chip that has a sticker on it it reads MCiLC
000094-6CA062
U6
then another chip that says Delta
.LANF7236G 9764P
and finally a number that appears on both the bottom and the top of the card
PWA
09-00062-23-REV A
I hope that helps with the search.

I tried the DNS error page and I typed in the domain number in the address box, but it still said it could not find the server. Strange, it is definately connected to the internet, or to something, this was the software that came with the OS 8.1 install disk, and still nothing.
Jim, I have many computers that work well, so I dont really "need" to get this thing on the internet, I would just like to see it load a page, even something simple , like Craigslist, and even if it took 5 minutes to load, or if I could send an email via the Clarisworks Lite, or other olden email software. I would be extremely jazzed if i could do some IMs with an early version of AIM. I guess I just want to see how far I can go with this really before sell them all to some other vintage Junky. I have already got my money worth from the hours of discovery and adventure so far. However, I see the web browser on the machine, and I want to see it work. I realise that if this does happen it will be painfully slow but thats part of the fun, how far can this old machine go?

Thanks for your help!
Patrick
(perhaps you know of a site where I can get and 68k version of AIM?)

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Answer 5

Apr 10, 2007 6:03 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

Asante is still in business, and has some drivers posted on their web site:

for Comm slot cards:

http://www.asante.com/support/legacy/Adapters_in/MacConCS.asp

For LC slot:

http://www.asante.com/support/legacy/Adapters_in/MiscellaneousLegacy.asp

Main downloads page for all these adapters:

http://www.asante.com/support/LegacyDownloads.asp

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Answer 6

Apr 11, 2007 4:51 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

Patrick,

"I would be extremely jazzed if i could do some IMs with an early version of AIM."

I would be extremely jazzed if I could get Juno to talk to a pre-OS X Mac.

As soon as you mention instant messaging, you are actually asking for two software titles. I do not know of any IM software that goes that far back. It is a generational thing. IM was a newer feature not offered with the original AOL versions.

One suggestion, though. Configure an external hard drive with the AOL system software. The early editions of AOL software was very specific to the extensions used and would mess up your boot drive. By using a separate drive for testing, you will not have to reinstall your system folder on the primary drive.

Ji˜m

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Answer 7

Apr 12, 2007 10:05 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

As I noted before I have 2 Performa 575 AIO's and I had done a clean install of only one of them and lost my 68k Version of AIM. After many futile hours of looking for the old version of AIM on the web, I realized I could just copy it from the other Performa, oh and by the way Jim there is indeed a version of AIM, a stand alone IM client not the AOL system software, it is version 4.0.972. I can not remember where I downloaded it from 6 months ago, but I now have it on both of the Performas. I tried once again to connect via the 28k modem, this time when I fired up AIM it made the old erie searching sound for a much longer time then ever before before telling me it could not find the AOL server. Also I noticed that the PPP host gave my computer an IP address. it didn't give me any of the other numbers, so I tried to type them in manually. Still no luck,I definitely can get the computer to dial the modem and connect with something, and stay connected, but as far as fetching mail, or getting a browser open or logging onto AIM, zilch!

I went to the Assante link Grant sent me, and not knowing what driver to install, I went ahead and installed 4 of them, attempting a connection after each install. I even tried to link the 2 Performas together with the ethernet cable and switched the Appletalk to that port with no luck.
I was a bit frustrated with this whole process, so I have now set up the 2 Performas, a PowerPc 7600/132 and a PowerMac G3 with a 333 MHz. They are all linked together with phone net plugs, and the are all hooked up the a D-link 10 port switch via their ethernet cables. the switch is hooked into a Airport Express, which is taking its feed off of another Airport Express hooked to a cable modem.
The ethernet plugs on the Performas are flashing as soon as I hook in a cable, and the ethernet option shows up in the Appletalk choice, but for what ever reason they will not see other computers that way.
I suppose I can keep trying to install more drivers for the Assante cards, or if anyone can think of a solution to the modem quandry I can lug it back to the room with phone line. At this point I am at a loss.

Boy I'd sure like to see those Performas on line.

Patrick

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Answer 8

Apr 13, 2007 7:53 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

Patrick,

Thanx for the reminder that AIM was a standalone app for the time period in question. When I saw the post topic '68k Mac online, I thought 68x as in Motorolla 68000 chip. Your Performas are the LC Quadra chip and Quadras are tolerable online. My son would not go back to an IIci after using the Q700 online.

I will rethink the software questions with a Quadra in mind.

Jim

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Answer 9

Apr 14, 2007 10:11 AM in response to Appaloosa mac man

Ok, I have found a website with the 68k version of AIM. Believe it or not it is an AOL site, for some reason the have it posted on their Quickbuddy page which is some sort of client software that runs inside your browser, I believe. In any case, here is the link: http://site.aol.com/aim/quickbuddy.adp
I went ahead and loaded this complete version on the Performa and using the ethernet port and the "supplied by server" tabs I tried to run it, this time it searched for a good 10 minutes before giving up. Of course that may have nothing to do with my connection or lack thereof.
If anyone out there has any experience with a Performa 575 or any of the LC versions from that time period, I am still interested if you can , and how to get it on the web. And if they have had any luck with email, browsing or best case, AIM.
Thanks,
Patrick

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Answer 10

Apr 14, 2007 1:40 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

patrick-

Are you getting a good Ethernet Address now, or just 169.254.xxx.yyy?

If you have a browser, try entering the physical address of your local router. It should respond with a login (to the local router configuration) screen.

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Answer 11

Apr 14, 2007 10:28 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Grant-
No I'm sorry I didn't clarify in the last post. Even though the AIM client did "search" for a good long time, I still had no numbers supplied by the server. I have even tried entering it manually with no luck. I just wanted to set up all the old computers with all the equipment I had hoping that somehow it would work. Here is a summary of what I have tried:
1. Connecting via a phone Modem, Both 56k and 28k
- I did actually connect to something but couldn't really do anything.
2. Re-installed a clean install of OS8.1 (retail version) and attempted the same experiments with the modems and the same results.
3. downloaded 4 of Assante's Ethernet drivers attempting after each installation a connection to the internet via a 8 port switch.
4. THen I tried to enter the numbers manually with no luck either.
As of now under the Appletalk menu the Ethernet option shows up (it always have)
I opened all the folders in the entire HD and found all the Assante drivers and an Apple built in Driver for the Ethernet in the extensions folder.
The Ethernet itself flashes when ever I hook up a cable, however I have never got any lights on the switch where as I do get a flickering light on the the switch where it is connected to the PowerMacs.
It seems like, and I must say I am a layman so I'm not really sure how these things work, The hardware is working i.e. the modem and the ethernet, it just does not know how to find the server. Would it help to bypass the the Airport and lug the beast upstairs to have a direct connection to the Cable modem? Or is that just a waste?
I feel like Im close, I'm just missing something. I have like 15 of these same ethernet cards, 2 on the Performas and I have like 12 of the old "Pizza Box" LC 475 et. Do you think it would help if I sent you one so you could identify. You could keep it ( sorry Im not sure if thats against protocol)
Thanks,
Patrick

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Answer 12

Apr 15, 2007 10:58 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

We can cut down on the variables a bit. The LC475 spec says it only has an LC III slot, no Comm slot. So if you have all the same card, it must be the LC slot version. AppleSpec for LC 475:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112230

"No lights at the router" is a problem. Some cards of this era had a very unusual feature -- they would not load the driver and "wake up" the card unless they were connected to an active Ethernet source at startup. Be sure the cable is plugged in when you start up, or Ethernet may not be available.

You should be looking at the TCP/IP Control Panel. [You may well be, you have not mentioned it explicitly.] If you select "Advanced" mode off one of its options menus, you can request that the driver stay loaded at all times, which makes debugging a little easier. It should see that the card exists and let you specify some options.

Even when configured to get an Address supplied by DHCP server, the computers may not go to the Router to get an Ethernet Address until you make a request that requires an Ethernet access. I like to use the Date and Time Control Panel feature to update the time from the Apple/Americas Time Server to generate the simplest request I can think of. Usually that forces the issue of a Valid Ethernet Address, either producing a good one or producing the 169.254.xxx.yyy address that says you are talking only to yourself.

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Answer 13

Apr 15, 2007 7:21 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

Patrick,

I reread all your posts to look for more clues. The first question came from this comment:

"I was however, using the phoneNet plugs that came with one of the bigger acquisitions"

If you have picked up an assortment of cables and devices from schools or auctions, you need to keep apples with apples and oranges with oranges. Phone Net connectors only work with AppleTalk Networks. They may plug into an ethernet port but lack the number of wires to work properly. If you are using the phone plug terms loosely, you might have ethernet cables but are calling them phone net cables. Even with ethernet cables, you can have crossover cables and normal cables.

Take a look at these sites to make sure you are using the right cables in each location.

http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernetcrossovercable

You mentioned a switch, a router and a modem. Using the process of elimination, can you add devices and subtract on your LAN? When son #2 wanted to learn about LANs, we put five computers on the table and connected them all through a hub, then a switch, then through a router, then another switch and two more hubs. We never turned off any Macs. A properly configured and well behaved LAN should not care what the wires are connected to. You can switch on the fly.

My I suggest a similar exercise before you move to web issues. Make sure each computer to be used can swap in and out of your local network before attempting to communicate with another network through other devices like network modems and routers.

Second, a router will have an uplink port. If the wrong wire is plugged into that port, you will get unpredictable results. Only the connection to a DSL modem should go there. All other devices on your LAN will talk through that one port. Predictability comes from consistent wiring.

My apologies if this is something you already know but another comment,

"I must say I am a layman so I'm not really sure how these things work..."

leads me to belive that you might have overlooked something in the learning process. "Or is that just a waste?" Learning is never a waste so stick with it.

"The hardware is working i.e. the modem and the ethernet, it just does not know how to find the server.

Are you sure? Try to swap out several machines on the LAN to make sure that portion is working. Flashing lights indicate traffic but that can just be test signals going out to 'ping' another device. Create a folder on a remote networked Mac and make sure that folder shows up on the Mac containing the original hard drive.

"Would it help to bypass the the Airport and lug the beast upstairs to have a direct connection to the Cable modem?"

Yes. Bypass Airport for starters. Get the hardwired network working. Every new element of networking that you introduce can add to the difficulty of diagnostics. While connecting to the internet service provider presents one set of challenges, connecting to an actual site depends on a whole new set of software configurations. Rather than lug a machine up and down stairs, we just took a long phone cord and made a cable to go the distance.

Your posts indicate that you have several issues going at once. Start one at a time to confirm each element before moving on to the next level of complexity.

Jim

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Answer 14

Apr 15, 2007 9:06 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

Ok,
I felt like I was close and was hoping by some miraculous luck I could write back to you guys fron the Performa, using iCab. How silly of me.
Grant, I was unaware that there was a way to change the type of "user" in the TCP/IP settings. I went to to look for the "advanced" pane like you suggested and found no such thing, out of desperation I clicked the question mark in the bottom left corner and was led through a guide on how to do this. I set the TCP to "always on" and then rebooted. and for some reason this time I got a light on the switch, this is where I got excited! when it finished booting I looked for to see if I had gotten an IP address, I did not so I fired up the AIM and it spun for awhile and then said it could not connect. The next time I rebooted I did not get the light on the switch, and somewhere in there I think I tried the 803 checkbox. I dont know what that does, but I tried unsuccessfully with it checked and unchecked, to no avail.

By layman, I mean that I dont know what to look for, but im good at trial and error.
As far as the cables go, I have tried all the cables on working computers, And I know what the Phonet plugs are and what they do, and they are working correctly, meaning I have the four beige computers wired to each other with the phone net plugs and the all see each other if I pick the printer port for Apple Talk, I also have all four computers hooked into a ETHERNET 10/100 SWITCH, this is functioning properly as the 2 Power PC's are on the internet and also capable of seeing the other computers on the local network.
As far as running a wire down from the CABLE MODEM, that is what the dual Airport Express WIRELESS ROUTERS are for. Airport Express #2 is taking the signal sent wirelessly from Airport # 1. Airport#2 is hardwired to a correctly set up 8 port D-Link SWITCH.
But just to be a good scientist I lugged the beast upstairs and directly hooked it into the CABLE MODEM using the ethernet cable that was working with Airport Express #1. Not knowing any numbers at all , I had to go with the Basic choice and Supplied by Server. This however did not work either.
After reading the link that Grant sent me I looked up the specs on the Performa http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112230
and compared them to the LC's and they seem very simular and also did not ship with Ethernet cards but had slots for them, so I doubled checked with one of the LC's and the cards were identical, also I was hopping to take some RAM from one of the LC's as I only have 12MB in the Performa, but I dont think the orinal owner would have put more RAM in the LC's than in the Performa.
I think I may be close to something though. It seems like it maybe a software issue. And I really am not trying to get convoluted, I just want to get this thing online, with a CABLE MODEM or a PHONE MODEM, it does not matter. The ethernet would be better because I have it all set up for that, and that seems to be the direction we are going in, but lets not forget that I did have the computer making a phone call and connecting to something, I was unable to do anything with that connection but it did connect. Is there some thing that might be turned off in another pane, that I dont know about?
Should I give up yet?
Thanks for your help so far guys.

Patrick

(I hope this clears up what I do and dont know so far)

PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz Mac OS X (10.4.9) Apple IIGS, iMac '17 flat, G3, LC, Performa et, et

PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz Mac OS X (10.4.9) Apple IIGS, iMac '17 flat, G3, LC, Performa et, et

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Answer 15

Apr 16, 2007 12:47 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

Make sure all of the appropriate extensions for Open Transport are enabled in the Extensions Manager including the PowerPC ones (I had to enable them to get Open Transport working on a 68k Mac of mine). I would recommend you upgrade to Open Transport 1.1.2 if you're using Mac OS 7.5.X or 7.6 or 7.6.1 on either of the two Macs too. You can find that download here: http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html. It's the same site you went to when you got the OS for your Apple IIGS. I would recommend transferring the files via a Zip Drive or external SCSI hard drive too.

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