Getting 68k Mac online

Hello,
I have been away for a few months, and at last I have had some time to fiddle with my collection of Old Macs. Just to recap, for those who might remember me. About a year ago I found an old complete IIGS with no software. After realising that I needed something older than my PowerBook G4 to get this software online, I ended up with many G3 and pre G3 computers. The ones that have fascinated me the most were the AIO Performa 575s. I was able to network from an old SEHD through the Performas and to G3 and from the G3 to the newest PBG4. I was however, using the phoneNet plugs that came with one of the bigger acquisitions, and therefore was unable to get the older Macs online.(save for the PowerMacs)
The Performa 575s did have Ethernet ports, but I was unable to network them through this method and after much fiddling I gave up, believing that they may be 3rd party ethernet cards and I had no drivers.
I updated them to OS 8.1 and loaded iCab and an old version of AIM. No matter what I did I could not get it online. Life took over and I let my old friends sit alone in the cold for a few months, when a few days ago, I realised that I had 20 hours of dial-up a month with my ISP, perhaps they could get me online! I obtained the local phone number and was helped set up the proper PPP settings, before I realised I needed a Modem! I thanked the nice and helpful customer Service agent from Earthlink, and went to go look in the pile of cables and connectors for an old external modem and I found 3!
2 of them were 56k modems and one was a 28/33k modem. I hooked up the 56k and under the modem choice there was no direct match but there was one by the same maker. It dialed the number and said it was connected at an unknown rate. When opened MS IE 3.0 it said that it couldn't find the URL, and the server could not be found. I tried the other 56k modem with the same luck and then the 28/33k and it connected at a good speed,but still no luck. I decided to try a clean install of OS8.1. I even did all the setup assistant. this time when I clicked on the browser, it went ahead and established a PPP connection on its own, said i was connected, and then I got the same error message, also the new version of AIM 4.3 I found online appears to be the power PC version.
So here I am at an impasse. Will I ever see my old 68k machine online, or have I missed the boat? is there some setting I am missing, is it possible that I could I even use the ethernet port? Its a great looking machine and even has the old Claris Works email program that I got to work on one of the old Powermacs. Does anyone out there have this old machine online? Also can anyone send me to a website that might have a 68k version of AIM?

Help.
Thanks,
Patrick

PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz Mac OS X (10.4.8) Apple IIGS, iMac '17 flat, G3, LC, Performa et, et

Posted on Apr 8, 2007 6:30 PM

34 replies

Apr 16, 2007 9:53 PM in response to Craigwd_2000

Craigwd,
Thanks so much for responding, I wasn't sure if anyone else was reading this post. I have OS 8.1 installed on the Performa's, so the Open Transport is 1.3, I think. In any case, I went to the Extentions Manager, something I never considered, and every single one was enabled. I clicked off a few which I will never use, and then did a restart, still with no luck.
Also I am running a PowerPC on the same network, with OS 8.1 installed That machine can access the internet, and is plugged into the same Switch, or As I have reread this post it maybe a hub, but I have 2 PowerPC's hooked up to it that are working and 2 68k's hooked up that are not. All four are connected with phoneNet plugs so I can move files with AppleTalk.
So Craig, does this mean you have a 68k machine accessing the internet? what machine, and can you open a web browser? Man, I wish I could get these online! It must be possible. What Am I missing?

Thanks for your Help!
Patrick

Apr 17, 2007 8:25 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

Patrick,

I am still suspicious of your PhoneNet cables. How many contacts do you at each plug? Typically, PhoneNet connectors have four contacts and RJ 45 ethernet plugs have 8.

Jim

Apr 17, 2007 8:41 AM in response to Appaloosa mac man

Me, too!

Please confirm or deny that you are using regulation 8-conductor Ethernet cables when connecting to Ethernet Hubs and switches.

You can tell the difference between a straight or "patch" cable (used for almost everything) and a crossover cable (sometimes used for Hub-to-Hub or equivalent connections). If you look through the clear body of the connector, you can see the color of the 8 wires inside. A straight cable has the wires in the same order at each end. A crossover cable has two pairs swapped at one end.

Also -- your two Airports does introduce another possible problem. Which device on your Network is passing out the Ethernet Addresses? What kind is your Router, and what is its address? Is that thing at the head-end just a cable modem, or is it a combination cable modem and Router?

Apr 17, 2007 8:56 AM in response to Appaloosa mac man

Another experiment you could try involves AppleTalk-over-Ethernet.

Just as you can do file-sharing with AppleTalk/LocalTalk (PhoneNet) cables by assigning AppleTalk to the printer port, you can also share using AppleTalk-over-Ethernet by assigning AppleTalk to the Ethernet port on two Macs connected to your switch via Ethernet cables.

When you open the Chooser and select AppleShare or a Printer type, it will generate traffic that you can see flashing the lights on the Switch.

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Apr 17, 2007 10:41 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

Does anyone out there have this old machine online?

Patrick,

I can at least confirm that it is possible to use a Macintosh computer with a 68LC040 processor on the Internet. This message has been sent through a PowerBook 190cs with System 7.5.3, MacPPP 2.5.3, iCab 2.9.9 and an external 56kbps modem. If there is a problem with sufficient memory for both Mac OS 8.1 and the web browser used, you may want to try the just mentioned combination instead. A North-American English System 7.5.3 can be found here; MacPPP 2.5.3 here. Another browser to test would be WannaBe.

Jan

Apr 17, 2007 10:50 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

My LC 580 used to be able to get online. I think I need to reset my router sometime because that sometimes prevents it from working correctly. I run Mac OS 7.6.1 on my LC 580 for software compatibility reasons. The main reason I don't use Mac OS 8.1 is that some of my games which require a full 68040 processor are incompatible with it. I upgraded my LC 580 to a full 68040 in order to play games that require it. My LC 580 also had one of the faulty 68LC040 chips which can't execute certain instructions making it necessary to replace it with a full 68040 (SoftwareFPU proved to me that it was one of the flawed 68LC040s). I sometimes turn off the processor cache when playing games like Police Quest IV (another reason I need Mac OS 7.6.1). Otherwise the game runs way too fast.

Apr 17, 2007 12:41 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Hey, Thanks for the replies!

Grant and Jim, Its not the cables! The cables work with the Power Pc's. The phonet plugs look nothing at all like ethernet cables. THe PhoneNet plugs have 2 phone jacks on one end and a printer, or modem port on the other, to comunicate between computers there must be a connected circle, so there always has to be a phone line in each of the 2 jacks, I have each computer connected to each other in a chain and then I ran a long phone cord back to the first computer. This is the only way this type of connection exists and works, I learned this a 8 months ago when I first was trying to Network them. I set them up this way so that I can move files and programs between the MACs online and the Performa's, it works well, you should try it! It also has nothing to do with The Ethernet connection. I really cant tell the difference between a crossover cable and a Ethernet Cable, but they all say CAT 5 on the side and they all work while hooked up to the PowerMACs. Just to be sure I went and disconnected the cable from the G3 powermac, and then hooked it into the Performa. While it was hooked up I tried all the old ways of getting an IP address, and even some of the new ways, I even tried to make a connection with AppleTalk IP, although there were no AppleTalk Zones available, and I was unable to connect to the other PowerPC which was still hooked up to the switch. So can we just assume that it is not the Cables, and will you leave the phoneNet Plugs out of the equation, unless you think I can use them to get on line.
The cable modem, is the one that came with the IP service. I assume it is just a modem and not a router, in any event it is connected directly to a Airport Express which acts as a router and does a very good job at assigning IP addresses to all the other computers on the network, wether they be wirelessly or hard wired to the switch or running OSX.1, X.2, X.4, OS 9.2 or even OS8.1. I have had just about ever type of PowerPC running off of this and it works great! I would love to integrate a 68k machines, but more important at the moment is just getting it online.
As far as the Ethernet Card here are some more things to consider.
1. We can assume it did not ship with this card.
2. I bought about 20 Macs and cables from a guy who had bought these from a small water testing LAB. From what I gather, at one point they were all connected with either phoneNet Plugs or maybe at some point they upgraded and put Ethernet cards in all Of the LC type of computers.
3. As I said before, I have one Performa with a clean Install and one Performa with Install on top of the existing software. Wouldn't the one Performa with the software still have the Driver? And if the Driver were missing, would Ethernet still come up as a choice on the TCP/IP pane, and on the AppleTalk pane?

Since I do have some modems that work, and I did get a connection I may have to try JAN's Idea and just re-install 7.5.3. I dont want to try that quite yet until I have exhaust all my other options with the Ethernet card.
Jan, its very exciting to hear that you posted a message using a 68k machine. I didn't know that the first PowerBooks had Motorola processors.
With any luck I hope to be posting the last message via a simular method!

Thanks For the help so far!
Patrick

Apr 17, 2007 1:06 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

Patrick,

Our Mac IIsi with 17 meg of ram and OS 7.5.3 works just fine on the web. Slow, but it works. A Diamond Supra 33.6 modem will connect at 48,000bps because newer software enables features that were not available when the hardware shipped. That is on an old farm house phone line. So, older computers can handle the job.

Here is what I recommend. Forget all networking and just configure one LC to work with one modem plugged into the modem port and into a phone jack on the wall. Eliminate all other factors. If your ISP does not support dialup, use a free AOL trial period to test your machine. Earthlink also offers free signups but only use the dialup number, not their software. That just adds compications, too. OS 8.1 and IE 5.1 should work fine. My G3 is still configured that way.

Ji˜m

Apr 17, 2007 1:14 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

Hey Jim,'
I allready tried all that! Did you not read the top of the post?
I guess I could set up a LC 466 or LC475 and try with that, but that means lugging a monitor and the computer into the room with the jack.
When I get a chance I will try again with Customer Service. Maybe they will have a suggestion that you guys are missing. Also can you run IE 5on a 68k MAchine?
I dont think that will work.

Patrick

Apr 17, 2007 10:06 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

Eureka! I got the darn thing online!
I tried so hard to connect to this post, but every time I got to this thread iCab 2.9 crashed on me. I was able to hook up to AIM, that worked flawlessly! I even transfered some small files back and forth with an OSX.4 machine. The only thing that it didn't do was go to the AIM server and get my buddy list, which meant that I had to type in my buddies as if they were new, otherwise it looks exactly like AIM 4.3 for mac. That was cool.
I went back to the phone line and hooked up the Supra 288 modem. Then I called Earthlink Support and they had me throw out the TCP/IP preferences in the System Folder. Then, and I think this is the thing I was missing all along, I had to put in the address in DNS server box. I rebooted and then started it all up, when I opened iCab, it started loading the apple page! Wow. It works. And it was slow too. I tried the 56k modems and it seemed a little faster, but there was no choice for either of those 2 modems in the modem plane, so I went looking for the drivers for them on the web. Both companies still seem to be in business, ZOOM and Best Data, but I could not find the right driver. I found something I though was a driver for the ZOOM, and when I ran that it installed firmware on the Modem. Now that modem will not work at all, but I really didn't fuss with it too much, I spent a good 2 hours trying to access this page from the Performa, I was so close, each time I got a little closer. Then I opened up Claris works emailer Lite, and that worked great too. I cut and pasted the link then shut everything down and opened up iCab, and tried that, it started to load the page, and after about 5 minutes, and me biting my nails, it crashed again with a system error #1, which I assume is a RAM issue. I was using the Performa with 20MB of RAM. I guess I can go looking for a 32MB chip( I don;t suppose one from an early power mac would work?) I tried using the hard drive RAM, that didn't work either. I solved this problem but I wonder if there is something I can do to make iCab load faster. I think I may try to set up one of the LC's next, they have less RAM but they are all running OS 7 and 7.5 and that may be a leaner OS.
It still would be nice to figure out the Ethernet cards. I tried once again, and I never seem to get any lights at the switch. This makes me wonder if they were set up only to comunicate with each other, and not get online, then again I did try a direct connection between the 2 Performas with no luck.
So now I will be working on getting those Drivers for the 56k Modems, finding the max RAM for the Performas, and still looking for a way to get them hooked up to the Network via the Ethernet. After that I have a Color Classic to throw into the mix. Talk about Slow!

Thanks for you help and ideas. Its an adventure.

Cheers,
Patrick

Apr 17, 2007 10:07 PM in response to Patrick Dobson

Patrick,

Yes, I read the first post and wondered why you moved on to network options before resolving the basic modem connection.

"I guess I could set up a LC 466 or LC475 and try with that, but that means lugging a monitor and the computer into the room with the jack."

A long phone cable will save all the lugging.

"Also can you run IE 5on a 68k MAchine?"

The LC 475 is an 040 machine so it is Quadra and capable of quite a bit. It was still selling in 1996 and Internet Explorer was introduced in 1995. IE 3 was introduced in 1996 I would have to conduct a test to see if IE 5 works with 7.5.3. IE 3 will. . I was using Netscape on the '030 Mac IIsi. That would definately work on the LC.

Here is the official site for IE history:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/WinHistoryIE.mspx

Keep in mind that when the PPC machines shipped, Apple did not even have a native OS for that chip. So, even PPCs were running the same OS that Quadras had been running for years.

My concern is that you have so many network protocols working (or not working) at the same time that configurations for one task do not carry over to another task. PhoneNet, AppleTalk, Ethernet, Airport and DSL all have their own place and purpose. You need to pin down one thing at a time to achieve predictability.

I partition a hard drive into three or four sections so I can have a modem configured system folder with PPP on one partition, Remote Access on a second partition, and so on. I boot from a different partition everytime I want to change hardware. That minimizes the headaches that come from changing configurations all the time. It is so easy to overlook one setting that hangs up the whole process.

Jim

Apr 17, 2007 10:32 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

Hey Jim,
I think I got over on the Ethernet connection because Grant sort of led me down that way and, it just makes much more sense. I have all the old computers in the laundry room away from everything else and out of the girlfriends hair. Thats why I ran the cable down there in the first place. The Cable comes in at the other side of the house and is hooked up to the TV, stereo, et. Its too far to run a Ethernet cable and also why I have the Airport Bridge. Also the Phone jack is far away as well, Although I might eventually run a wire for that, It still would be easier to have it hooked into the Ether, and considering I have the cards, why not use them. Also I only have a limited amount of time for dial up. Finally I have the PhoneNet plugs set up because I can and I have them, why not use them? I doubt that they are the reason that I cant get any lights on the switch. I probably have the wrong driver or something. Let me know if you can get the IE 5 running on your 68k. that might be cool too.
Thanks for you input,
Patrick

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Apr 18, 2007 1:31 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

Patrick,

every time I got to this thread iCab 2.9 crashed

A topic with nearly 30 messages is simply too heavy for iCab running on a 68LC040 machine. Try this instead: Use WanneBe (link above) to browse the Discussions. Once you want to post a first message, click on the Reply link. This will bring up a page in WanneBe asking you to log in. Immediately choose iCab under Open This Page In from the WannaBe Go menu. iCab will open, and you can click the Login button and proceed from there.

I was using the Performa with 20MB of RAM.

Mac OS 8.1 should mean less memory available for the browser than, for example, System 7.5.3.

getting those Drivers for the 56k Modems

With MacPPP 2.5.3 (its included Config PPP control panel) you can manually enter an init string. A generic one, such as AT&F or AT&F1, is often sufficient. For an OT PPP application that is using scripts, you could possibly try the Modem Script Generator ( here), provided that you have information (from modem manuals et cetera) about suitable strings.

Jan

Apr 18, 2007 7:47 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

Jan,
Thanks for the tips, I will download WannaBe and give your idea a shot.
Im little confused when you start talking about scripts and stuff. And unfortunately I do not have any of the manuals for the Modems. I was going to try to contact ZOOM and see if they can help. Do you think that it would be worth getting the 56k modem working properly? This machine has a slow proccessor. Also, the cool thing about the Supra 288 is that it is powered by the ADB connectionwhich means I have one less power cord to worry about (another good thing about the AIO Performa). Do you think I can squeeze more speed out of that? the most I have gotten so far is 28000 bps.

Thanks,
Patrick

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Apr 18, 2007 10:51 AM in response to Patrick Dobson

Hi Patrick,

when you start talking about scripts and stuff

A script-based PPP program, such as OT/PPP, has the information about inits et cetera contained in a script (it is, typically, the script that you choose from the list of modems). If a ready-made script for a certain modem is not available, you can make your own via the Modem Script Generator. The alternative is where one enters the data manually, directly in the PPP application (e.g. the Config PPP control panel for MacPPP 2.5.3 that I use right now on this System 7.5.3 PB 190cs).

it would be worth getting the 56k modem working properly?

By all means, try it. Is that a modem with a DB-25F connector, which requires a separate MiniDIN-8M to DB-25M Mac modem cable? Most "PC style" modems are possible to use (except "Winmodems"; these carry out a lot of the modem work in the computer, and can only be used with a Windows operating system). As I indicated earlier, it is not always essential to have a special modem init string. AT&F or AT&F1 normally sets a modem to use the factory configuration. If you have the exact modem model/type, you could try to post it here; maybe someone knows where to locate a manual (or just the init data) on the Internet.

Do you think I can squeeze more speed out of that? the most I have gotten so far is 28000 bps.

That appears to be a very good true line speed.

Jan

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Getting 68k Mac online