what mixer should i get?

I'm putting our new studio together and need to find a mixer.
Will be using the Kona LH card for capture and output.

I'm looking at a Mackie 1402-VLZ 14 channel mixer.

what do yo think?
This is not my area of expertise.
What is the common mixer folks use with fianl cut.

G4/G5, Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Posted on Apr 13, 2007 7:06 AM

Reply
14 replies

Apr 13, 2007 7:16 AM in response to TheProducer

The VLZ compact mixers by Mackie are good, especially for the price now that Mackie has to compete with their own Onyx mixers (with integrated firwire I/O). They won't last as long as mixers from Soundcraft (which I would highly recommend looking into), and of course if you want really cheap you can always go with Behringer. (I have a 1604 VLZ, and while I don't ever use it anymore, it was great when it was being used everyday.)

In the case of Soundcraft, you should check out the Sprit M Series mixers - very nice compact desks.

Apr 13, 2007 7:39 AM in response to yoink

Also heard and read good things about the tascam FW 1082

We will have 6 decks going into the mixer...I plan to use a patch bay to get the extra decks in the mix.
Most of the stuff we do will be Betasp, DVcam, and HD.
But we still get clients with other formats such as HI8, SVHS, 3/4, cassette and so on.

I like the idea of a control surface on the tascam but am not sure of the real differences and how it will interface with all those decks and FCP.

Learning as i go on this one.
The studio I bought already had a media composer set up with a Mackie board...so i nerver had issues...but now that we are upgrading and switching editing apps. I need to know all this stuff.

Apr 13, 2007 9:06 AM in response to TheProducer

The Tascam you mentioned is actually an audio interface with a control surface. While aesthetically it looks like a mixing desk, it is not the same thing, although you still could use it to exactly the same end. It would provide several channels of audio conversion for you, so you could import several distinct tracks at once.

I don't know how the control surface works with FCP, but I'm sure you could hunt around for information on it.

It could very well be a good solution.

Apr 13, 2007 1:27 PM in response to TheProducer

Hard to go wrong with the Mackie VLZ series. They're robust and reliable, and the mic preamps sound good too. Try to get one that has as many stereo line inputs as you will need, but of course you could relegate one channel to a patchbay for various inputs. If you're going to use a patchbay, you might only need the 1202, which has four stereo input channels.

Keep in mind that mixers in editing setups are mainly used as just a volume control for various inputs monitored one at a time, so all the EQ and aux routing features and such will mostly go unused. What's nice, though, is that you can setup the Mackie's alt 3-4 outputs for recording out, completely separate from the main outputs to monitors...so you can use the mic channels for VO work (eliminating the need for an additional external mic preamp or specialty USB mics, etc), route the alt 3-4 outputs to the patchbay, and patch that to the Kona's balanced inputs (assuming you're staying balanced lines across the board, but unbalanced will work too). Some Alesis and Behringer mixers have Alt 3-4 outputs as well, but if you can go with the Mackie, might as well.

Apr 16, 2007 8:04 PM in response to TheProducer

He was just talking about using the mixer to it's full potential, allowing you to both monitor actively, and use it for Voice over/ADR work using the other busses available to you.

I did think of one other thing with the VLZ mixers; they're dirt cheap used. So you can buy one and if it doesn't suit your needs, sell it for something else.

If you buy a used VLZ test it extensively first. Check to see if some channels stop working at low volumes, or if they "pop" back into action when you put a lot of voltage through them, ie loud signals, then you have a ribbon cable problem. (The most common VLZ issue.)

Check every input and output. It's an annoying process but you don't want a mixer with ribbon cable problems. While it is easy to fix (nothing $100 and a few hours can't change) it's still a royal pain. My VLZ (a mackie-supplied replacement for my first fully-defective one) is now suffering ribbon cable problems even though it's essentially brand new, and has only ever been transported about once, and in a flight case to boot!

Apr 16, 2007 8:32 PM in response to yoink

The Tascam FW1082 is a great unit for FCP.

And, Yoink, it actually is a full mixer, as well. It doesn't have to be connected to a computer to act as a mixer. It can act as a 10 input mixer, a 32 channel software control surface, and an audio interface for FCP. It really is the best of both worlds.

Uses:

With a couple decks, works great for routing different audio signals to a capture card.

With more decks, it will work better with a patch bay.

It offers full transport controls for FCP, Soundtrack Pro, and more.

It is a control surface for making adjustments to the mixer in FCP.

Run a mic into FCP's VoiceOver tool with it.

Record up to 10 tracks simultaneously in the bundled Cubase LE software (possibly Soundtrack Pro, too, never tried it).

Many more...

Apr 16, 2007 8:48 PM in response to yoink

appreciate you are looking at the VLZ1402 ... just wanted to warn you off the VLZ1202 in case you got an attack of the purse strings. It's not a good mixer for oh so many reasons ... no faders, physically too small (too much crosstalk when its fully patched) alt3-4 outputs can't be enabled without muting the channel normal send ... its just crappy.

Apr 17, 2007 3:11 AM in response to Andy Mees

appreciate you are looking at the VLZ1402 ... just
wanted to warn you off the VLZ1202 in case you got an
attack of the purse strings. It's not a good mixer
for oh so many reasons ... no faders, physically too
small (too much crosstalk when its fully patched)
alt3-4 outputs can't be enabled without muting the
channel normal send ... its just crappy.


Things is, in a setup like this, you'd very seldom be actually mixing channels at the same time, like using it for live performance...so crosstalk is less of a concern...since it's mainly just one input active at any time. Its compactness is one of its main attributes in keeping the workstation less cluttered, pots vs. faders isn't as much of an issue since it'll just be one channel volume at a time, set and listen, not riding levels and such aside from maybe voice recording...and still, it's plenty comfortable with the pots. Muting for alt 3-4 is exactly what you want so your mic recording won't be affected by monitor playback/feedback when doing VO. Along with good build quality, I'd say it's ideal for this specific use. Live music or multitrack recording is a different matter. If you've experienced issues in this regards with its performance of quality, I can understand, but I respectfully disagree with your perspective over its actual features.

Apr 17, 2007 3:13 AM in response to TheProducer

this answer went a bit over my head.
not sure if you could go into more detail?
I have the kona Lh card...so i follow what you are
saying about the first 2 outputs going to kona but
not the 3-4 alt.


The mixers main outputs would go to your audio monitors, and your main level would be the master volume for all channels. The mixer's Alt 3-4 outputs would go to your cards analog audio in, or to a patchbay with a set of inputs connected to the Kona's analog in, if need be....which would be a good idea if you needed to patch another line-level audio directly to the Kona in for a direct audio capture, bypassing the mixer.

On each input channel, the mute buttons also route that channel to the Alt 3-4, effectively cutting the signal going to main so you won't get feedback from the audio monitors when using a mic, routing the audio directly to your computer. And you can adjust the alt 3-4 out level with a separate master dial.

I agree with Yoink about exercising caution when buying used. These can be rugged mixers, but they are also used on the road a lot...knocked around sometimes or what have you....constantly plugged in and out. Normal wear and tear, really. But they are so affordable that you might as well buy new and get the benefits of return policy/factory warranty if something does go wrong.

If you do get one, and you need help connecting it up, shoot me an email and I'll help you out. Good luck.

Apr 17, 2007 5:13 AM in response to TheProducer

The Tascam is a nice suggestion as it gives you a control surface for FCP. It may not give you enough inputs if you're already looking at a 14 input board.

Another option you might strongly consider is one of the Yamaha digital mixers, like the 01V. Several benefits to this; you can hook it up to the AES ports on your Kona so your path to and from the mixer stays digital 48k, and, it has scene presets!

The scene presets are useful as you only have to determine levels and routing once, save it as a preset and next time just recall it with a button. I've found this to be very conducive to my workflow. They have useful built-in effects such as noise gate, de-essing, eq and compression, fully recall-able. These are also rack-mountable if you need them out of the way.

. . . my two pennies . .

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what mixer should i get?

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