23.976 frame rate explained

Question

23.976 frame rate explained

This post was triggered from this this thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=4741388#4741388

I just thought it best to start a new one
------

Okay iSchwartz, with the speed of a flying bullet, and with help from my fellow members of the IBS (Institute of Broadcast Sound - in the UK), I think I have some answers...

24P is indeed simply video at 24frames per second with the "P" meaning Progressive scan. Its a video format invented to be compatible with film. It also means that the footage will have more of a "film look" when its converted to TV frame rates for broadcast as it will have the same process applied to it as film footage.

As to where 23.976 fps comes in (with regards to Logic) is rather more vague!
(warning - the following contains some speculation!)

As all will know ⚠ because film is shot at 24fps it needs a special conversion process to be shown on an NTSC TV of 29.97fps. The process could just speed the film up but it would look funny and so they sort of duplicate some of the film's frames instead, to get the frame rate increased. The process used would result in a frame rate of 30fps so to bring it in line with the (cumbersome) NTSC frame rate they have to slow the film down slightly (by 0.1%) before they "scan" in the film's frames to make video.

...and guess what a 0.1% speed reduction of 24fps results in? Yes - 23.976!

so...

23.976 is the frame rate of the telecine machine when playing film to transfer to NTSC tv. The process involves slowing the 24fps film by 0.1% to 23.976 and applying a 2:3 pulldown picture process, resulting in NTSC's frame rate of 29.97fps

Now the question is why would you want Logic to work in 23.976fps?

It is possible (I don't know for sure) that when you shoot with film (ie 24fps), destined for tv that the programme is edited at 23.976, ready for the telecine process, and so this is the frame rate used during the post production process - As it is the time reference used in the edit then we need logic to work at this rate too so we're all in time.

It is also possible that the latest HD video cameras provide a shooting frame rate of 23.976 fps so that the "slow down" process of the past is not required.

Having said that to view the 23.976 fps pictures on telly the video needs to be converted to 30fpsDrop - or you need a display that can work at this unusual frame rate. I am not sure what the implication of all this would be for the musician "working to picture".

One thing I would say, is that musicians are not alone in having much confusion with frame rates and time code, especially now Hi def has arrived. I would strongly advise double checking with "production", particularly the dubbing editor, if that frame rate requested ~really~ is the right one!

I hope I haven't confused the issue even more with all that! Don't take any of this as gospel as I am still learning too. I trust someone will provide corrections and additions.

Mac Pro 2.66GHz 2GBRam, Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Posted on Jun 16, 2007 3:54 PM

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Answer 1

iSchwartz

Level 5

4,321 points

Jun 16, 2007 4:46 PM in response to Thomas O'Carroll

Wow, thanks for this Thomas!

What gets even more confusing (at least in my experience) is when editors start to jargonize "24P" and speak of it as simply "24":

When working on animated films (as seems to be my not-ungrateful lot in life thusfar), when I discuss "24" with an editor it can basically be taken for granted what we're talking about. But on the various non-animation indy films I've been working on, a casual utterance of "yeah, we shot it at 24" by the director or editor needs to be double-checked, even when the picture in question is obviously not an animation.

Just one detail with respect to what you (thank you so much!) posted...

It's been my experience that the actual frame rate of 24P is not the same as straight-up 24 fps. It seems to be 23.976. This would explain why, when Logic's frame rate is set to 24 fps and you're syncing a 24P picture prepared with a proper 24P t/c burn, Logic's t/c counter and the burn will become out of sync after a short time.

I'm really looking forward to seeing where this thread goes and learning more about this whole process. Thanks again T O'C!

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Answer 2

Jun 17, 2007 6:51 AM in response to iSchwartz

It's been my experience that the actual frame rate of
24P is not the same as straight-up 24 fps. It seems
to be 23.976. This would explain why, when Logic's
frame rate is set to 24 fps and you're syncing a 24P
picture prepared with a proper 24P t/c burn, Logic's
t/c counter and the burn will become out of sync
after a short time.

This is my guess as to the reason why 24P is apparently 23.976...

AFAIK 24P is just 24 full frames of picture per second, as opposed to tv's interlaced frame structure which would provide (sort of) two pictures per frame. The only reason you would make a program using 24P is that you want it to work first and foremost on the cinema screen, or you want it to have the (processed) look of film when it goes on tv. It could also be a preferred format for animation simply because 24P has less frames than NTSC's 30drop which means less animation work!

As discussed before, it is likely that if a 24fps programme is destined for tv then it may well get edited in a slightly slowed down format producing a frame rate of 23.976 (note they would never slow the time code down - a second is a second!)

I believe its likely that what you've experienced is just what you say: things have been "jargonized" (or should that simply be "confused"). I can see the editor sitting in the edit suite before they start and they notice the timecode base...
"why is it 23.976?" they ask some technical bod.
"because it was shot at 24P" comes back the answer.
Then ~you~ ask them what the film's frame rate is and the editor come back with ...
"It was shot in 24P"

Again this is speculation I hasten to add!
I'm waiting for a reply from some folk who might know about this stuff for sure. So watch this space:-)

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Answer 3

linuxuser

Level 3

680 points

Jun 17, 2007 4:15 PM in response to Thomas O'Carroll

Thank you for your help, Thomas. This helps ease the pain. It is however, truly an embarrassment that Apple, who touts their dedication to creative pros in their advertising and from Steve Job's speeches, are so behind the times with such basic functionality in Logic that is standard in all other major video and audio applications, and used in the real world video/audio world.

I see why lots of studios are converting over to Avid/Pro Tools solutions for video and audio. And with apple focusing more and more on ipods and iphones, it pains me that they neglect Logic and Logic users.

I understand that Logic is developed in Germany, and perhaps the communication is not getting through from the many users here to the developers there.

Dual 2Ghz Powermac G5 -- 15" Ti Powerbook G4 867Mhz Mac OS X (10.4.9) Logic 7.2.3 Ubuntu PPC

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Answer 4

iSchwartz

Level 5

4,321 points

Jun 17, 2007 9:50 PM in response to Thomas O'Carroll

Thomas,

I did some checking today of various movie files I have. I believe I can confirm that movies shot and/or edited in 24P are ta the 23.976 frame rate.

I did a test with a movie running at a no-doubt-about-it frame rate of 23.976. I sync'd up Logic's TC counter with the burn and incremented frame by frame. At about 45 seconds, Logic's frame count was off by 1.

So, the math... if we multiply 45 x .024 (the frame rate difference between true 24 and 23.976), we get 1.08 frames. So there it is.

Bottom line is that we need that 23.976 frame rate to save us from all this ducking around...

-=iS=-

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Answer 5

Jun 18, 2007 5:18 AM in response to iSchwartz

i have to say, in my experience and opinion, musicians should NOT be worrying too much about frame rate. that is the job of the telecine technical guys and possibly the dubbing house. and here is why:

- when the telecine is created, and then sent for offline editing, it is the offline edit that you receive with the BITC or the striped LTC (rare these days) that should be your guide. obviously in the states with the confusing NTSC format, it is important to be sure what format they have used in the offline process, but ultimately it is the production facility to ensure you have a video edit that you can work to. in the old days (actually just as i was getting into it these things were going out) we had to have specialized VHS machines or u-matics that had certain flexibility with formats but not a great deal.

- so the music you create can either sync to a master clock (which is rare other than word clock which is not for video syncing anyway) or simply to the QT or VHS that you have been provided with which should have standard frame rates. you simply compose your music based on that sync.

- the issue is more critical in the dubb, but generally 1 second of music at whatever frame rate is still 1 second of music. when you send your music in it is almost never smpte locked unless you have delivered via a timecoded DAT something which is very rare these days. basically it simply measures the sample rate and then syncs within the DAW in the dub.

- it is simply important for the people sending you their film to agree how many frames consitute their second. if you have a VHS playout from the offline, you should work to whatever format that VHS or DVD comes in; NTSC or PAL. it's not your job to worry about the film to offline telecine.

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Answer 6

Jun 18, 2007 8:36 AM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

Rohan,

I agree in so far as the musician should not have to worry about the technical aspects of picture, but the composer is working within a team of people who have to be able to communicate effectively. the composer is also part of the production's overall workflow and so the composer's work methods can be dependent on productions.

To answer you points individually...

----------------------

- when the telecine is created, and then sent for offline editing, it is the offline edit that you receive with the BITC or the striped LTC (rare these days) that should be your guide. obviously in the states with the confusing NTSC format, it is important to be sure what format they have used in the offline process, but ultimately it is the production facility to ensure you have a video edit that you can work to

Your first sentence says it all. If the offline edit is in 23.976 then presumably this is what you'll get sent. I have no idea how this will get delivered as the format would not work on video tape, you wouldn't be able to view it on a standard TV either. You could view it as a quicktime movie. That is the only way I can think of.

I agree it should be up to production to provide you with what you can work with but how far must they accommodate? I doubt anyone would be too happy providing U-matic tapes these days. For my last job I wanted QT movies on a DVD-R but I had to settle for DV tapes and capture myself. Lets face it, as technology gets cheaper and more accessible we are increasingly expected to be able to handle all those advances!

-----
- so the music you create can either sync to a master clock (which is rare other than word clock which is not for video syncing anyway) or simply to the QT or VHS that you have been provided with which should have standard frame rates. you simply compose your music based on that sync

I don't know what you mean by "master clock" in this context, and as you point out word clock has no timing information at all and is irrelevant in a timecode discussion. Yes you work to the movie you've been given, but what if its using 23.976fps? If it is, it wont be on VHS - and, you wont be able to sync properly to it in Logic as Logic doesn't work with 23.976

If production provides you with a "special copy" in say standard NTSC 29.97fps then the editors timecode will be different to yours. You wont be able to talk timecodes with them over the phone for example. For them to do this production will have to convert the footage specially for you using 3:2pulldown telecine process (so the film plays at the right speed) and I'm not sure they would pay for that!

- the issue is more critical in the dubb, but generally 1 second of music at whatever frame rate is still 1 second of music. when you send your music in it is almost never smpte locked unless you have delivered via a timecoded DAT something which is very rare these days. basically it simply measures the sample rate and then syncs within the DAW in the dub

1 second in NTSC's 29.97fps is 1second at 23.976fps which is 1 second in PAL's 25fps too;-) Its the number of frames within one second that has changed. The problem is the format of the movie. you can play it in QT but not on the telly and Logic doesn't have a time base to match with it. It is likely that logic will be able to follow the movie in QT (not sure of that), or "chase" it, but Logic's own smpte display will not match the movie's BITC. Indeed all of logic's time references will not match the movie's.

when you send your music in it is almost never smpte locked unless you have delivered via a timecoded DAT something which is very rare these days. basically it simply measures the sample rate and then syncs within the DAW in the dub

Ever heard of BWF? Bounce your finished music in logic as a WAV file and you actually get a timecode stamped "Broadcast WAV" file: a file that has the SMPTE time of where the music starts in the film. The timing info is embedded in the file. All the dub mixer has to do is press a key-command to place this file in the right place in the film. I worked this way on my last project. (Its also how logic can place any audio file into "its original recording position")

Without using timecode I'm wondering how you tell "the dub" where the music should go in the film? - I'm genuinely curious. In the past when delivering music without timecode I would still say, in a written note for eg, the track starts at some timecode point (as referenced to the BITC for eg). This is why the composers timecode needs to be the same as the dub/editor's!

----
- it is simply important for the people sending you their film to agree how many frames consitute their second. if you have a VHS playout from the offline, you should work to whatever format that VHS or DVD comes in; NTSC or PAL. it's not your job to worry about the film to offline telecine

A nice thought in theory:-)
It shouldn't be our job to worry about such things (bars, beats, keys and harmony are enough for me!) but we may not have the choice if we want the job!

Don't get me wrong here Rohan. I don't profess to understanding all this stuff properly and I have never been asked to work in 23.976fps. I went down this line of enquiry to see if I needed to know about it! Perhaps you are right and production will supply a special version for the composer - but I'd like to know if this is the case as I like to have a basic grasp of the overall production process. I'd love to know of anyone who has had to work in this frame rate and how typical it is becoming (if at all).

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Answer 7

Jun 18, 2007 12:07 PM in response to Thomas O'Carroll

Your first sentence says it all. If the offline edit is in 23.976 then presumably this is what you'll get sent. I have no idea how this will get delivered as the format would not work on video tape, you wouldn't be able to view it on a standard TV either. You could view it as a quicktime movie. That is the only way I can think of.

no mate. if you are getting a VHS or a DVD it will either be PAL or NTSC. they are 25 fps and 29.97 repectively

I don't know what you mean by "master clock" in this context, and as you point out word clock has no timing

in the old days musos often had syncing machines they would sync everything to. i was just heading off comments regarding word clock sync which was i mentioned. people can be pedantic 🙂

1 second in NTSC's 29.97fps is 1second at 23.976fps which is 1 second in PAL's 25fps too;-) Its the number of frames within one second that has changed

you only need to worry about this if you are sending a synced DAT and you are working to some strange flavour of frame rate which is what i am trying to say - you never will.

the conversion happens at telecine - that is where you worry about it. and then again when you do the final layback. you simply need to make sure you are using the same reference as everyone else in the post chain.

for example - you would have to worry about it if you had a tape that had been telecined film to PAL frame by frame. that means the film would play slow by a frame. if you were to play it back in VHS machine everything would sound a bit lower. but they don't do that - they do a conversion at the telecine. everyone works to pal and then they convert back when they layback to film.

Ever heard of BWF? Bounce your finished music in logic as a WAV file and you actually get a timecode stamped "Broadcast WAV" file: a file that has the SMPTE time of where the music starts in the film. The timing info is embedded in the file. All the dub mixer has to do is press a key-command to place this file in the right place in the film. I worked this way on my last project. (Its also how logic can place any audio file into "its original recording position

yes i deliver bwf all the time. it timestamps the audio telling the destination DAW where in the timeline it goes, but it is NOT the same as smpte locked audio. smpte locked audio such as TC DAT, locks the audio to the timecode frame by frame. BWF only tells the the DAW when to start playing the audio. if you had a TC DAT the audio would be transposed very slightly here and there as the tape would playback faster or slower to keep it in sync with the master.

in our scenarios these days, working with accurate clocks you can sync extremely reliably even over long periods because the audio is locked to sample rate. it measures say 44100 samples per second. on poor digital audio equipment, that might not be reliable, but these days with modern equipment it isn't a problem.

Without using timecode I'm wondering how you tell "the dub" where the music should go in the film? - I'm genuinely curious. In the past when delivering music without timecode I would still say, in a written note for eg, the track starts at some timecode point (as referenced to the BITC for eg). This is why the composers timecode needs to be the same as the dub/editor's!

this exactly how cues are often delivered. but nowdays its more likely AAF or OMF if the composer is up to it or with sync plops and a TC reference.

i - we - many of my colleagues will have a cue title that looks like this:

3M04 JC 10.04.23.00

plus it is in bwf

and sometimes with a sync plop as well.

we take no chances. but frame rate is ignored and not relevant when we send in our cues.

even where there is virtually wall to wall music, most cues are broken down and some overlap. the start points in terms of whatever SMPTE post has been working to is what matters. we have even delivered complete bounces of all the music including silences in certain circumstances and there has been no drift whatsoever - testament to the accuracy of modern DAWs and interfaces.

A nice thought in theory:-)

It shouldn't be our job to worry about such things (bars, beats, keys and harmony are enough for me!) but we may not have the choice if we want the job!

well, its important to know enough not to get stung that's for sure. but i can assure you there are plenty of extremely successful composers out there who wouldn't have the first clue about this stuff.

be clear about this: all you need to worry about is the format the offline is working to - because all the hard stuff happens getting it there. you just need to request copies of the film with BITC for video playback to be sure of sync and work to that. just in case there are dropped frames somewhere in the film, always work to the BITC in the film.

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Answer 8

iSchwartz

Level 5

4,321 points

Jun 18, 2007 12:12 PM in response to Thomas O'Carroll

Hi Rohan and Thomas,

Frankly, the whole 2:3 pulldown telecine aspect ratio selective focus PAL NTSC digicam thing makes my head spin. While I "get it" on an academic level, I still really don't get it. And that's OK. I agree with you in that composers don't need to get involved in all that stuff. But I think the point here is more that Logic should be updated to support the 23.976 frame rate so that spotting to picture and all of the other things that we need to do would be made easier if Logic's t/c counter and tempo events, to name two, matched (or corresponded) to the burn on a 23.976 film.

It's just a matter of math, something I hear computer do pretty well. As you said, one second = one second. I'm fairly well-convinced that the calculations that Logic makes based on the frame rate you select do not influence anything other than numerical displays of event positions, and, as was pointed out in another post, the timecode that a BWF is stamped with.

So until we get 23.976 support I'm going to have to continue to hire this abacus whiz kid I met in Chinatown to get me through my work. Ever see a timecode abacus? It's about as unwieldy as a contrabass clarinet, but more percussive sounding.

: - )

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Answer 9

Jun 18, 2007 1:05 PM in response to iSchwartz

upport the 23.976 frame rate so that spotting to picture and all of the other things that we need to do would be made easier if Logic's t/c counter and tempo events, to name two, matched (or corresponded) to the burn on a 23.976 film.

why iS?

you should NOT be working to 23.976. sticking a musician in at that kind of level is just asking a lion over for lunch.

if you were capturing VHS or DVD, they will playback at 29.97 for you. you should set logic to work at 29.97. the offline should be sending you film at 29.97. they got THEIR film from telecine - and even if they ARE working at 23.blahblahblah playing out to VHS or DVD means they have convert that frame rate to 29.97 because that is what DVDs and VHS's playback at.

even when they do digibeats for viewings they are at NTSC or PAL. the BITC you should be working to should be PAL or NTSC. if it isn't - you can still work to the BITC printed on your film but you should still be setting you framerate in logic to the same one as the media you received your film on.

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Answer 10

Jun 18, 2007 1:10 PM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

upport the 23.976 frame rate so that spotting to

picture and all of the other things that we need to
do would be made easier if Logic's t/c counter and
tempo events, to name two, matched (or corresponded)
to the burn on a 23.976 film.

why iS?

you should NOT be working to 23.976. sticking a
musician in at that kind of level is just asking a
lion over for lunch.

if you were capturing VHS or DVD, they will playback
at 29.97 for you. you should set logic to work at
29.97. the offline should be sending you film at
29.97. they got THEIR film from telecine - and even
if they ARE working at 23.blahblahblah playing out to
VHS or DVD means they have convert that frame rate to
29.97 because that is what DVDs and VHS's playback
at.

even when they do digibeats for viewings they are at
NTSC or PAL. the BITC you should be working to should
be PAL or NTSC. if it isn't - you can still work to
the BITC printed on your film but you should still
be setting you framerate in logic to the same one as
the media you received your film on.

Well Rohan, rightly or wrongly, more and more composers are going to get QT movies set to this so it would be a good idea for Logic to support it.

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Answer 11

iSchwartz

Level 5

4,321 points

Jun 18, 2007 1:20 PM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

Rohan,

I'll explain... when I'm inbetween gigs I work on indy films, and lots of these are being shot t 24p and edited at 24p (23.976). So the 'indy' moniker notwithstanding, most of these guys are working with professional editors. I'll interject briefly that I never do 'capture'; I've only ever scored directly to QT files. OK, so when the editor and I are discussing prep of the QT files, two factors come into play:

1. Almost always it's a total pain for the editor to have to render a copy of a film that's at a different frame rate than their native frame rate.

2. When it comes to spotting or discussing scenes in terms of timecode locations, we have to be referring to the same frame numbers througout the project. This also saves a **** of a lot of confusion come delivery time. Same frame rate/timecode throughout, less headaches at the end.

So per your post, if the frame rate of the media I get is 23.976, then that's what I need Logic to be set to. 24 fps is close, sure, but not always close enough. In this scenario, as I posted previously, every 45 seconds there's going to be a 1 frame discrepancy.

So some of this has to do, perhaps, with the level of project we're respectively working on. If it's not work I'm doing for a "real" production company, I'm working on indies, and there's rarely any budget to do anything other than go direct to DVD, no telecine involved.

And BTW, I recently put together a scoring reel which contained footage derived from 29.97 as well as 24fps projects. The editor had to convert it all to 23.976 in order for it to all be played back properly from DVD.

Hmmm... more fodder for conversation.

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Answer 12

Jun 18, 2007 2:39 PM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

Rohan,

I think there is some confusion here. The edit will be done at 23.976fps. and as you said yourself...
"be clear about this: all you need to worry about is the format the offline is working to"

and the offline (which I called "the edit") is working to 23.976fps.

Yes, you wont get a programme delivered on VHS or DVD (video) with that fps rate. It wouldn't work! So if the composer ~does~ get a film with this odd frame rate it will be a QT movie on a recordable disk. If the composer is a Logic user it will cause him big problems!

I agree it is tough to expect the muso to deal with this sort of thing but then we are facing increasing pressure every day to be more and more technically capable as we do the jobs of more and more people (heck, there was a day when the composer just handed in some hand written stuff on manuscript paper!).

Now that video cameras are more flexible with their frame rate (and especially now HD is getting a grip) I suspect this sort of thing will get more and more common. Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself but I like to feel prepared.

Just to be absolutely, pedantically clear...

23.976fps is not 24P. 24P is a progressive scanned picture that contains 24 frames per second. When a programme destined for NTSC broadcast, is shot in 24P the conversion process requires the 24P footage to be slowed down by 0.1% to 23.976 fps for the offline work (which precedes the final conversion to 29.97fps NTSC). The reason for this is actually audio related.

The same process will be used on 16mm/35mm film projects as they too are 24fps.

If 24P footage was destined for PAL (25fps) the process would be different and would ~not~ involve 23.976fps at all. You only see 23.976fps with NTSC bound projects.

If you want to blame someone for this whole mess, blame the early American TV broadcast pioneers who decided to go with NTSC and a silly frame rate. Us Brits need to thank the French for our far easier PAL system. Britain rarely likes to be indebted to the French but in this case I feel we owe them one 🙂

(Is PAL called PAL because it's more friendly?)
(that was rhetorical btw... ok I'll get my coat)

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Answer 13

Jun 18, 2007 2:40 PM in response to iSchwartz

yes, i remembered that you work to QT delivered to you but i didn't realize;

a) that the editors would be working to 24p and
b) that they wouldn't convert for you.

never-the-less, if these indy guys have shot on film then they must have telecined to get it into the offline. if they shot on dv or hddv why on earth are they using 24p? even if it goes to print it still has to be telecined.

i fully understand that you must work to the fps that the offline is. but i am wondering how that is resolved myself. they still have to play out to digibeta for viewings and sound prep work and of course to send out to producers. what it means then is that you have a conversion process there. perhaps you set the DAW to fps of the format you received your film on but your discussions and cue list is based on the BITC which should reflect fps of the offline. meaning you will have a lot of blurry BITC frames.

in the past when i have worked to film shot on film and destined for film the telecine was to PAL - the offline was in PAL and there wasn't any confusion at any stage.

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Answer 14

iSchwartz

Level 5

4,321 points

Jun 18, 2007 2:47 PM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

never-the-less, if these indy guys have shot on film
then they must have telecined to get it into the
offline.

If they're going to film, right. Exactly. But... I should be so lucky to score an indy for a director who has the budget for film! Every indy I've worked on has been shot with a digital camera of some kind, footage transferred to FCP, QT movie rendered from that, and for movies where the directors have had no aspirations of ever going to film. So it's digital all the way.

Message was edited by: iSchwartz

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Answer 15

Jun 18, 2007 3:17 PM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

oops - It seems we posted at the same time Rohan! Seems much of my last post is somewhat pointless now - ho-hum 🙂

you said...
never-the-less, if these indy guys have shot on film then they must have telecined to get it into the offline. if they shot on dv or hddv why on earth are they using 24p? even if it goes to print it still has to be telecined.

More and more stuff is being shot on video at 24P now. Its the video format that works alongside film, allowing you to mix the formats together. It will typically be Hidef or that super HD stuff that folk like Luscas films are using for the cinema. Traditional film is getting pushed aside due to the conveniences of digital video. The other reason for using this frame rate is so that you can pass it through the film style telecine process to get that slightly jerky "film look" for your telly pictures. Oh, and for animation! 24fps means you have 5 or so frames less to draw per second compared to working native in NTSC.

and you said...
i fully understand that you must work to the fps that the offline is. but i am wondering how that is resolved myself. they still have to play out to digibeta for viewings and sound prep work and of course to send out to producers.

This is my view completely! Before looking into this I thought surely they don't edit at this frame rate! 23.976fps is a daft, incompatible format for pretty much anything other than QT style delivery. I am sure it causes a few problems for everyone.

Having said that, pretty much everyone is on the QT bandwagon now and I am sure those digibeta/VHS tapes and DVD's are getting replaced with QT email attachments etc. After all, even big budget major studio released films are getting edited on laptops "at home" now. Everyone (ie editors, directors, producers etc(well ok not producers)) is being expected to know their way around digital video technology and have a copy of FinalCut pro to hand.

I don't believe there is anything like this with PAL, thankfully.

Incidentally feel sorry for location sound recordists (my other hat). Their sound will need to be slowed down by 0.1% to stay in-sync with the film. I have heard talk about 48.048kHz sampling freq. recorders so that the audio will be the standard 48kHz when played a bit slower with 23.976 film but I have no idea what the timecode implications are here! I don't feel strong enough to go there yet!

Cheers all

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23.976 frame rate explained