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iPod 160GB - the good and the bad new

I received my iPod 160GB this morning. Here are some of my first impressions.

The good news:
I was a bit worried about speed issues and/or crashing as posted on this forum, but my iPod seems to work without any major speed issues, and I haven't encountered any crash so-far. The content is about 60GB of music, lots of covers, 2 movies, agenda and contacts. Even cover flow has a very acceptable speed (faster than on my dual G5 PowerMac), though I wonder its suitability with an amount of covers associated with 160GB of music. The only performance issue I encounter when I go back to the main menu, where arbitrary cover art is shown using Ken Burn effects. I guess a bit of caching can solve this issue.

The bad news:
Sound quality. The good thing is that it's more crisp than the iPod Video 5G 60GB (more loudness > 8kHz) adding to a pronunced sort of accuracy with cymbals and percussion beats, but a bit too crisp from a timbre standpoint of view (reminds me a bit of my iPod 3G). It also has less energy in the lower mid-range (200-800Hz), so it misses some push and harmonics. Overall this results in a less harmonic sound, less spatial (the scene is inside your head instead of around your head), a bit too much emphasis on high treble, and "less silence between the notes". It sounds more technical, and less acoustical/realistic. The output of my PowerMac G5 resembles the iPod Video much more than the iPod Classic. I suspect there is a mismatch in the group delay of the treble, where the treble arrives "faster" than the lower frequencies. That's a typical error in DA-conversion and filtering, that can be fixed by FIR filtering, or masked by a slight attenuation (0.1-0.3dB of treble starting from 8kHz).
Some say it is a small issue, but I think it is a huge issue.

Annoyances/strange things:
- Sound quality. A bit more natural and acoustical instead of technical.
- When the screen blanks during playing, it shows a clock, and a battery indicator. When music plays I'd like to see where in the track I am, what number is playing etc., without having to touch the iPod to wake its screen up.
- EU sound limit. With my Sennheiser HD650 and some soft recordings, it is too soft. I hope for a fast update of GoPod, to be able to accomplish normal sound levels.
- Clicker hardly audible through the headphones.
- Everywhere album art in the main menu, except for the "Now Playing" menu, which only shows a title.

Some bugs:
- The time shown when the screen blanks is always in US (no AM/PM!) format instead of the selected 24h format in the preferences.
- The date is always shown in US format (m/d/y instead of d/m/y).
- Home addresses and office addresses in the address book are all mentioned as home address on the iPod.
- The camera connector doesn't work.
- Equalizer heavily distorting. It is amazing that this is the case since the 1G iPod, and nothing has ever been done to fix this.

I hope a firmware update will solve things quickly. Especially the sound quality issue should be solved; this is the primary reason to buy an iPod.

Marc

Mac OS X (10.4.10)

Posted on Sep 11, 2007 12:36 PM

80 replies

Sep 13, 2007 6:35 PM in response to BradPDX

I'm also an audio engineer, and perhaps my every day experience with studio and live sound caused me to notice things originally. I could tell things were not sounding as they should, although it sound was acceptable. I'm not saying that because I do pro-sound for a living, that I can hear better than you or anyone else... I just have a habit of paying closer attention than your average listener.

I played the same MP3s from a 60GB 5th Gen, my 160GB 6th Gen, and my PC.. the 6th Gen sounds the worst.

I have Shure E2c's and Sony MDR-7506's. I know they aren't the best monitors, but they do reveal things that say, Apple Earphones won't. I have a pair of Etymonics ER4s's on the way.

Sep 14, 2007 1:00 AM in response to BradPDX

Dear Brad,

I fully agree that 0.1dB on its own is not a reason for concern. It is my experience, and the experience of many other audio engineers that a rising curve from 20Hz to 20kHz with 0.2dB CAN give audible results, depending on the reason (e.g. think of the differences in the passband of a Butterworth and Bessel filter). I've heard many many cases supporting this, also in my own audio engineering (e.g. developing a subband rejection filter for a DAC).

The difference in measured phase response cannot be explained simply from the frequency measurement as you state. I've calculated a minimum phase response from the frequency response (brown curve - and yes, that shows a relation like you say), and it is completely different from the measured response. This hints at non-linear behaviour of the circuitry or signal processing. Hence, the output of the iPod is not a minimum phase system. I would suspect this to be clearly audible, as confirmed by many articles in the AES (depending on their context).

Mechanic devices, despite their shortcomings, exhibit linear properties and are minimum phase systems, and their phase response can be deduced from their frequency response. Their shortcomings can be coped with by proper engineering. The fact that a certain device is the weakest component in the audio chain (e.g speakers with typically 3 to 6 dB deviations on-axis) doesn't imply that small variations in the source components (digital players, amplifiers) are not audible, or not significant. It only takes more than a frequency curve to find what is relevant, and what is not relevant. Let's just mention jitter as an example, it clearly affects spatial response, but it is hardly measurable with classical measurements.

My claim is not about the iPod being perfect or not. I was disappointed to realize that my upgrade from a 5G to a 6G implied a step backwards in sound quality. LESS spatial information (the difference between music around you or in your head WITH THE SAME HEADPHONE), an electronic haze to the sound, and less harmonic content. I tried as best as I could to find some reasons, and measurements show the new iPod deviates quite a lot from the old one, and might hint at the root cause. The root cause, unfortenately, is impossible for me to dig into, with no access to the electronics and firmware, and therefore is in the hands of Apple right now.

Let me also state that despite the lesser sound quality, the 6G is still a good device in many aspects, and due to the fact that it is introduced quickly, needs some attention with respect to stability and other improvements. Where I would give the 5G a 9 out of 10 for sound quality, the 6G gets a 6 out of 10. If sound quality is of main concern, I would certainly recommend a 5G right now, otherwise I would recommend a 6G, it is a nice product in all other aspects.

Hence, I'm enjoying my 6G, but just less than my 5G with respect to sound, and I hope Apple can pay a bit attention to it. My own experience tells me that a slight filtering in the top end would already solve quite a bit. I have no clue about the cause for the group delays.

Marc

Sep 15, 2007 3:00 PM in response to Marc Heijligers1

No luck with firmware version 1.0.1, which I guess concentrated on bug fixes:
http://www.hifivoice.com/audio/ipod/comparison/measurements/measurements.html

Marc

chatoyer

Level 1

5 points

Sep 15, 2007 3:13 PM in response to Marc Heijligers1

Marc, thanks for all your work on this. You've saved me about $550 (in my currency) as I had my eye on the 6G 160GB. I think I'll stick with my Sony equipment (MD and HD-5) as I always have: I've been waiting for literally four generations of iPods for Apple to get their sound quality sorted. Generation 6 and we still have no customizable EQ and distortion from the existing presets. Good lord...

Sep 15, 2007 3:48 PM in response to G5Benny

G5Benny wrote:
Whats not ok is the 8 second beach ball in Itunes every 5~10 seconds!! It took me near one hour to do some new playlist that would have been 10 minutes on my 5th gen!

I wish I had that. At the end of every action with the iPod in iTunes (create a playlist, rename a playlist, add one song, add 1,000 songs) on my admittedly-old G4 (with USB 2.0 card), I get the beach ball for 54 seconds.

Knelland

Level 1

10 points

Sep 15, 2007 5:09 PM in response to Marc Heijligers1

Legendary work Marc. Now, if Apple would just *give us some kind of statement* on this as to whether it can actually be fixed through firmware. I've got an iPod Classic on pre-order here in New Zealand, but I'm not buying it if it can't be fixed.

Y'hear us Apple? *Tell us what's going on!*

chatoyer

Level 1

5 points

Sep 15, 2007 8:04 PM in response to Knelland

Agreed, Knelland. And while they're at it, maybe they can tell us how Tiger is meant to handle the shift in daylight savings time here in NZ. I've heard 10.4.11 will do it, but here's hoping they release it before the shift in time. I'd hate to have to write a letter to the newspaper announcing how a major computer manufacturer can't support a country like NZ, but, well... 🙂 hehe

Knelland

Level 1

10 points

Sep 16, 2007 12:05 AM in response to chatoyer

Haha, interesting point. Now I'm wondering if Dick Smith's will refund my 30 dollar deposit. They already lied to me twice - "We're getting them in on Wednesday" and "The new iPods are $330, with 15% off if you pre-order". Yeah, that's 15% off the ORIGINAL price of $389. Guess you could say I'm a sucker

Sep 16, 2007 3:01 PM in response to Marc Heijligers1

Yeah, I just updated the iPod to 1.0.1 and there's no audio improvement.

In fact, I just listened to the same 320 kbps CBR track on my 5th Gen and 6th Gen with the same earphones. You can definitely tell the difference. The 6th Gen has no punch. No crispness in the highs. I'll even admit that the same track @ 192 kbps CBR on my 5th Gen sounds better than this 320 kbps transcode.

eshudnow

Level 1

0 points

Sep 17, 2007 4:19 PM in response to Marc Heijligers1

I have the 80GB version and noticed in my brand new 2008 Nissan Altima Coupe with Bose that my IPOD sounds like crap when plugged into AUX. The same songs on CD sound amazing compared to the IPOD. Something is definitely wrong with the IPOD Classic audio Quality.

Sep 17, 2007 5:05 PM in response to eshudnow

I imagine you're using this AUX with the headphone out on the iPod?

I have a Pioneer CD-IB100II with a Pioneer head unit that uses the dock connector. The line out of the classic seems OK, but I haven't listened to that critically.

Sep 17, 2007 5:52 PM in response to Marc Heijligers1

I'm very surprised to hear the comments about the sound quality of the classic. I haven't listened through my headphones. I have many really great 'phones, but I usually don't listen to mp3 type files with them. But I was playing the Classic in my car connected through a Dension Icelink. I wasn't thinking about the music, my mind was elsewhere. But the music drew my attention. There was a much larger sound stage. Instruments had much greater separation. I had forgotten how nice my auto sound system could sound.

eshudnow

Level 1

0 points

Sep 17, 2007 6:44 PM in response to muzicman82

Yes, I have it AUX directly to the IPOD Headphone jack.

Sep 17, 2007 7:21 PM in response to Marc Heijligers1

What about the Tv out function not working without the new $50 dock?! It would have been nice to know about this when I was at the (physical) Apple store! Apple could have at least included the new dock with the ipod classic and tacked on another $50 to the price tag even. I haven't watched actual television or dvds in months because of the availability to watch ipod videos on the tv with a simple a/v cable, I've grown dependent on it even. If I had known sooner I would have not wiped my 80Gb clean of videos to spend a full day loading the 160Gb with videos I can now only watch on the tiny screen! Thanks Apple! Brilliant way to get another $50 from my pocket! I'm surprised you didn't eliminate that function all together to force us all to by your Apple Tv!

Signed,
Disgruntled Consumer

krlynn

Level 1

0 points

Sep 17, 2007 7:42 PM in response to muzicman82

I don't have any theory or measurement to offer, but the 160 Classic I brought home and loaded up yesterday does not seem to sound as good as my 80 Gig iPod Video. I landed on this site via googling to see if anyone else had the same impression. I rip with iTunes at 256vbr and listen through Shure E500PTH earphones. I'm neither a critic nor a technician, and am not sure how best to describe the difference. I compared several selections, including playing Pink Floyd's "Money" 4 or 5 times through. The 160 just isn't there -- less resolved, less spacial, less immediately present. The iPod Video came close (to my ear) to the Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS in my PC. The 160 Classic is noticeably inferior. My measure is this: my old iPod Video moved me; its replacement does not.

iPod 160GB - the good and the bad new