iPod 160GB - the good and the bad new

Marc,

I want to thank you for a fine job of measuring the audio output performance of the 6G Ipod Classsic vs. the 5.5G Video.

Before I begin confirming some of your findings, I want to point out two major audio improvements in the 6G Ipod Classic compared to the earlier 5.5G Video:
- Noise floor improvement of ~20db as estimated by my hearing
- Deeper bass by using new bipolar amplification rather than using DC blocking capacitors

I find these improvements to be significant, especially the improved noise floor. I use Ultimate Ear Pro 10 and Shure SE530 headphones, each with a sensitivity of 119 db/mW. When I first plugged my pair of the Ultimate Ears into my 5.5G, I heard the noise floor which previously had been masked by the less sensitive headphones I was using. Worse, the particular Ipod I had exhibited shot noise in the output rather than simple white noise, meaning it added a percussive rain drop effect to all my music. I quickly got a second 5.5G as I couldn’t stand the shot noise, I was past the 10 day Apple return period, and the noise wasn’t considered a defect. The noise floor was clearly audible during quiet classical music passages. The new 6G has a barely noticeable noise floor, which I simply love. I wouldn’t want to go back to the 5.5G.

Evaluating the other defects you’ve found, by far the most serious is the time retardation of the lower frequency spectrum (or time advance of the high frequencies, if you want to think of it like that). Smearing pulses like this will produce two effects:
- psycho acoustical emphasis of the high frequency spectrum
- diffusion of percussive transients such as those generated during a harpsichord string pluck or the slap-back of a signal from a reverberation surface. In effect, the reverberation will become less localized and more diffused

Apple needs to address this issue, which hopefully can be taken care of in the DSP by bit shifting the high frequency components.

Regarding the 0.1 db high frequency boost, this is likely not to be noticeable, especially since I feel the high frequency enhancement is a psycho acoustical effect. Most people won’t be able to hear a 0.1 db shift in high frequency. Also, most headphones have a lot of nonlinearities in high frequency response, far more than 0.1db—as much as 10db is common.

Regarding the phase shift you’ve noticed, again, above about 200 Hz, the ear is relatively insensitive to audio phase—the ear/brain can’t process this data at this rate. As well, unless I’m mistaken, none of the compression codecs, MP3, AAC, or WMA retain phase information of the individual harmonics during the time frames into which they subdivide the music. Also, if you look at the critical 20Hz to 200Hz spectrum, the phase shift delta of the 5.5G is 100 degrees compared to the 60 degrees of the 6G. The 6G is an improvement.

Listing to the 6G vs. the 5.5G, the difference between the two outputs is noticeable, but only barely to my ears through both the Pro 10s and the Ec500s. The 6G has an emphasized treble and ambience is slightly smeared. Comparing to the output of my computer put through an M-Audio Delta 66 24 bit D/A converter, the treble emphasis of the 6G is more noticeable.

Compared to the very poorly designed output of the Ipod Photo (4G) which badly distorted many sounds and needed a high impedance patch cord or high impedance headphones to get half way decent sound, the 6G is a dream.

Let’s hope Apple fixes the frequency time shifting.

Oops. I've got to correct one item in my post immediately above--my Ultimate Ear phones are the Super.Fi 5 Pros, not the 10 Pros. A little mental glitch.

I got my 160gig Classic over the weekend. I can say its definitely less scratch-prone than the previous iPods (my last is a now-2-year old 5th gen whose face is more than a little scuffed now, despite my being fairly careful with it). They've completely dropped the acrylic facing in favor of brushed aluminum (like everything else Apple nowadays) with, I think, a glass screen (similar to the new iMac displays, I imagine). The center button inside the scroll wheel now has a slight concavity to it. The outer edge of the front face has a slight curving bevel to it, and then has a sharp (much more so than in previous versions) corner where it switches to the silver of the rear casing (which is basically identical to 5th gen iPods).

The 160G is roughly the same thickness overall as my 60gig 5th gen (and, I imagine, the 80gig 5.5s). So any accessories you have that are thickness-dependent (like cases) should still be fine. I haven't encountered any compatibility issues with any of the dock-connecter devices I use (I've got a RoadTrip for my car and an iHome alarm clock system that both work fine with the new iPod).

Another nice feature is that the new iPod respects folder trees now--i.e. if you create playlists within subfolders in iTunes, it'll keep them organized that way on the iPod, instead of putting all playlists together.

One thing people ought to be aware of is that the new iPods are not yet compatible with any games purchased for the 5th gens. I gather they're slated to add this functionality down the line. I imagine its because of the new software architecture being completely different from the last one. Of course, the Touch and iPhone don't have these either, and are going to be a lot longer getting them, if ever, since they don't use the click wheel.

With regards to the main portion of this thread, while I love listening to music, I'm not an audio afficionado, and the new iPod sounds just find to my ears. I haven't tried comparing it with my old one specifically, but I haven't got any complaints. But then, I don't have ultra-sensitive ears and replaced the included earbuds more for aesthetics (I prefer black iPods, and earbuds to match) and comfort (the Apple ones are a bit too fat for my ears) than any dissatisfaction with the sound of them.

The most irritating thing about the TV OUT issue is of course the fact that Apple didn't disclose the change to customers.

However, a close second is that their support people (obviously located offshore) have not been briefed on the change either. Apple support (at least the frontline) were surprised that the TV Out couldn't be changed without an Apple dock. I've been told to exchange my iPod (the 3rd gen nano) for another one "as that's likely to fix the issue" - um, I have my doubts on that one.

For the record, the TV Out function on my 3rd gen nano won't change to "On" or "Ask" even when docked in the iPod "Universal" Dock with the Apple AV Cord (even though the Apple support site says that this should work).

REALLY irritated Apple.

Excellent analysis mate. You've convinced me to buy a Classic after all.

Hi all

Im Rodney from Brisbane, Australia. I have had my Ipod Classic 160GB (AU$479)just over two weeks and performance wise its not perfect compared to the 5.5G as it was more refined due to how long it was available.

With the Ipod Classic sometimes when you choose a song from your albums it will sit there for up to 30 seconds before it finds the song (you can feel the hard disk moving) then it will start playing (workaround: go to next track then go back to original). This is intermittent but with the quality control today it shouldn't be occurring. I have just updated the Ipod Classic to 1.0.1 (56.6MB compressed file). I believe the hard disks being used now are Samsung instead of Toshiba, and the Samsungs do access the hard disk more then the previous Toshiba hard disks.

The "clicker" is too soft on the new model, whereas the previous model was louder. The screen on these new models is a lot better than any previous generation and I believe the screen is Made in Japan as the Legal info indicates the screen is made by DaiNippon Screen Manufacturing Co Ltd Japan. I think Apple should have gone for an OLED display which uses less power and is thinner again and can be viewed at almost 180 degrees.

Rodney

I posted yesterday that the Classic sounded better in my car. I hadn't tried it with good headphones. I did an experiment with Grado RS-1's and the difference is definitely there. The music is tighter with a smaller sound stage on the Classic. It became fatiguing to listen to I returned the Classic. Its a shame. I liked the new interface and I'm bumping against the ceiling in my old 80GB 5th gen.

I am planning on purchasing the new ipod classic but would like to ask the following. I use my ipod 5.5G docked to an apple docking station which is in turn connected to audioengine speakers via the docking station's audio out jack, not the long thin USB port on the dicking station. If I purchase the new ipod classic and use it with my speakers as described above, will I experience inferior sound quality or does the 'defect' only affect sound through the ipod's line out jack? thanks!

I kind of want to know too, but suspect that it would be the same since they both have to go through the Cirrus Logic codec. In the PC sound world, Cirrus Logic is synonymous with cheap, crappy audio built into motherboards, and now Apple is putting them into one of their flagship audio products??? It just doesn't make any sense to me. I purchased my 160GB iPod exclusively for the purpose of being used in my 2008 BMW 335i Coupe which has been built with iPod integration and is awaiting transport to the US. The iPod Classic wasn't my first iPod but it did get me to purchase a lot of songs and videos, and purchased the iPod specifically for this car to be its jukebox.

As soon as I got the iPod Classic, I immediately noticed the very unpleasant sounding shrill highs with my Sony MDR-7506 studio monitors. I thought maybe that's how it was supposed to be until reading this posts and listened through my other systems. Music is NOT supposed to sound like this!

It's very disappointing to me, since I custom ordered everything on my BMW to my ultimate specs. If there is no official word from Apple in the next few days, I'll have to return my Classic and the iPod integration will be worthless because the current gen large capacity iPods do not sound good.

One thing Apple must decide: do they want to continue to be known for the high quality of their products, or will they let accountants decide this for them? Many great companies are ruined when they make the shift from being engineer-driven to accountant-driven.

One Insanely Great thing about the iPod -- it lets the USER decide the output quality based on how much compression they choose to use during encoding. I rip my music from CDs and get it into iTunes via Apple Lossless encoding. I am listening to my iPod through a HeadRoom Micro Amp with either Shure SE530s or AKGK701s (depending on whether I'm at home or travelling).

Sure, a lot of people can't hear the difference between the Classic and 5.5G iPods -- but that's probably due to their use of heavier compression, along with headphones that won't resolve the differences. However, with my listening conditions I'd guess far more than 50% of listeners could differentiate between old and new. Given the margins Apple has maintained on their players, I'd expect them to use parts that enable them to keep the sound quality as high as -- if not better than -- previous units. Lead, Apple, don't follow...

I'm going to be forced to return my 160GB Classic, too. Very disappointed that Apple dropped the ball on the sound quality this time around. The thing that chaps my hide is now I'm out the $35 restocking fee. Anyone know a way around this?

Sound quality of the iPod classic is so horrible that its problems can even be heard clearly through the cheap stock headphones Apple provides.

My 160 sounds wonderful. Bettern that my last four pods. So either there are major differences or it is subjective. Of course I am using better headphones than the buds!