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Q ab. Hard Drive upgrade; PATA/SATA, S.M.A.R.T., HDD Controler

I have a few questions about replacement hard drives for my PowerBook G4 12" 1.0 GHz DVI. (I am also going to upgrade the hard drive in my wife's Powerbook G4 15" 1.33 GHz Combodrive, but I think the questions/answers below will apply to both. I'll just deal with my 12" for ease here.)

I have read Apple's specifications and searched all over to find detailed information about ATA ratings and compatibility, and I'm still in the dark about a few things. I'm interested in a 160GB or a 250GB internal drive to replace my 80GB (which did come standard as an optional feature, although this is my second 80GB--I burned the first one before my Applecare expired), and I'm looking at the following drives, for instance:

HITACHI Travelstar 5K160 HTS541616J9AT00 (0A28419) 160GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache ATA-6 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822146200

Western Digital Scorpio WD2500BEVE 250GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache ATA-6 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136159

Questions:

1. HDD Controller limit to internal drive capacity: I've read that older powerbooks (whatever this means, it wasn't specified) may have a 128GB limit, supposedly meaning that the HDD controller will only recognize 128GB on an internal drive. Anyone know if this is true? How do I find out? It isn't published on Apple's spec page for my machine. And, if such a limit does exist for my machine, can I install a 160 GB and get the full 128GB? (b/c a 120GB will only give me 100+ usable after all.) Will the fact that the drive is lager than the total recognizable amount mess up the cataloging, data retrieval, reliability, stability...?

2. ATA-100 vs. ATA-6 vs. ATA-7 vs. PATA vs SATA. My present 80GB TOSHIBA MK8025GAS just says ATA in the System Profiler "Protocol" field for the ATA drive. I presume that the SATA is a later, more recent, non-backwards-compatible format/pin configuration/?. I presume the 100 refers to the 100mb/s data transfer rate, which is what the Apple specifications have for my machine. The drives I am looking at, by and large, are rated at 100mb/s. They all have other specifications, however (ATA-6, ATA-7), and I am hoping to hear that they do NOT refer to pin configuration differences.

-Q- will PATA and SATA drives both fit my machine, or does the "Ultra ATA/100 hard drive" listed in the Apple Specs for my machine mean that the pin configuration/compatibility will only work with PATA drives? Thus, Is Parallel ATA what I have and need?!?! Will a faster SATA drive work in my machine? Would I be able to swap it out into a MacBook Pro when I upgrade next year? (i.e. are SATA drives &/or boards backwards compatible with PATA drives? And are PATA drives &/or boards forward compatible?)

3. S.M.A.R.T. verification capability. I am unclear as to whether this capability is essential and which drives provide it. Some information states that Hitachi Travelstar drives DO support S.M.A.R.T. verification, but such is not listed on their information about the drives. My present 80GB Toshiba DOES have this capability, so System Profiler says. Before my previous drive failed, SMART notification may have saved me (though it's unclear if it actually made any difference--it's just notification, after all, right?), alerting me that the drive was failing and thus giving me enough time to get the last bit of un-backed-up data off the drive before it died altogether. (This is a presumption based on changing S.M.A.R.T. status notifications in System Profiler and from Disk Utility Repair Disk reports). In fact, however, I don't really know what SMART verification is, and thus I don't know how important it is.

-Q- How important is S.M.A.R.T. verification capability? And what is it really?

-Q- which manufactures support it?

Many, many thanks for any insight.

Powerbook G4 12" 1.0 GHz DVI Superdrive, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Mar 11, 2008 11:09 PM

Reply
52 replies

Mar 12, 2008 9:48 AM in response to Jeremy Morse

Jeremy:

Both your PowerBook G4s will support 2.5" (P)ATA/IDE HDDs. All modern HDDs are backwards compatible. Intel-based Macs need 2.5" SATA HDDs.

With regard to the HDDs you linked, they are both fine HDDs. With regard to the WD 250 GB drive, many users have noted an annoying clicking sound from the drive. To the best of my knowledge, the drive is sound and the clicking does not affect the functionality of the HDD. With regard to the Hitachi, some people have reported problems with Hitachi and Toshiba drives, although not necessarily with the one you linked. Most HDDs come with a 3 year warranty. Seagate drives come with a 5 year warranty and have excellent user satisfaction ratings. Here is a list of HDDs for your computers available at OWC. You can shop for better prices for the 160 GB here and for the WD 250 GB here.

I've read that older powerbooks (whatever this means, it wasn't specified) may have a 128GB limit, supposedly meaning that the HDD controller will only recognize 128GB on an internal drive. Anyone know if this is true?

It is true, but it does not apply to either of the 'Books in question here. It applies generally to pre 2003 laptops.

You will find a helpful discussion about ATA technology at Wikipedia. You will find information about S.M.A.R.T technology here.

I am sure I missed something in your list of questions. If after reading this post you have further questions or comments, please do post back. In addition, if you decide to install the HDDs yourself and need directions and tips, please ask when you respond.

Good luck.

cornelius

Mar 12, 2008 11:48 AM in response to cornelius

Cornelius, first, thank you very, very much for such a thorough response. You have answered all my questions, thanks so much! You share a wealth of knowledge throughout these forums, and I'm happy to have the opportunity to thank you personally.

I've been through the links you suggested, and learned a lot about SMART and ATA.

I have found some of the reviews you mention about WD and Hitachi and Toshiba HDDs, and I think I'll head for the Seagate 160GB ( http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Seagate/ST9160821A/) --for once, a drive which actually is labeled Ultra ATA/100. I now know what that means from the wikipedia article, ATA-6, thank you.

And a really wonderful tool at OWC to suggest compatible HDDs--just like dialing in what RAM is compatible for a system. Super.

So, I'm all squared away for these purchases I think. The rest below is out of curiosity.

I'm not quite sure if I understand this paragraph:
Both your PowerBook G4s will support 2.5" (P)ATA/IDE HDDs. All modern HDDs are backwards compatible. Intel-based Macs need 2.5" SATA HDDs.

Does this mean, as I think it does, that the Seagate Ultra ATA/100 which I'm about to buy will not work with an Intel-based Mac?

In addition, if you decide to install the HDDs yourself and need directions and tips, please ask when you respond.

I do intend to install them myself. I haven't had this G4 open, but I put 2 HDDs in my previous G3 without issue, so I think I'll brave it, armed with iFixit instructions. Popping keys off is new for me, but I'll get over it. =) If you have other suggestions, I would love to hear them. I have read on these boards that some have had problems pulling off the connector which is attached to the motherboard, which I'll be super careful to avoid doing.

Thanks again for all your time and insight~ jeremy

Mar 12, 2008 12:50 PM in response to Jeremy Morse

Jeremy:

does, that the Seagate Ultra ATA/100 which I'm about to buy will not work with an Intel-based Mac?

Your Intel-based Mac needs a Serial ATA (SATA) HDD instead of ATA or ultraATA, PATA etc. Not knowing the specs of your IntelMac select your Intel Mac here and navigate to your Model for a list of compatible HDDs.

I do intend to install them myself. I haven't had this G4 open, but I put 2 HDDs in my previous G3 without issue, so I think I'll brave it, armed with iFixit instructions.

Since you have done it before, this addition may be superfluous, but here are few tips you may find helpful:
• Print out the ifixit directions as well as the screw guide ahead of time.
• Be sure you have the right tools. You don't want to damage the screw heads or you may never get them out. And the correct size Torx screw driver is critical.
• I use small medicine cups one for the screws in each step. I nest them so that the last ones out and the first to go back in are on top. You can use an ice cube tray, egg carton, dixie cups etc. (Some users report cutting up the screw guide and placing the applicable section in each container.)
• Be very careful pulling out leads. Hold the lead as close to the plug as possible and wiggle (the plug 🙂 ) to loosen its grip. Don’t hold the wires and pull as that can damage the cable, or worse, in some instances pull the wires out of the plug. Indeed, some users have pulled the socket off the logic board! Use needle nose pliers or tweezers if you can access the plug, or nudge the plug with a small instrument to help loosen its grip.
• Use force gently in removing parts. Separating upper and lower case takes some doing. Use a plastic tool (spudge) so as not to leave marks.
• Refer to the screw guide when reassembling computer. Putting longer screws in the wrong place can perforate the circuit board.

Please do post back with further questions or comments.

Cheers 🙂

cornelius

PS: Thank you for leaving feedback in Apple Discussions by marking the "solved" post.

Mar 12, 2008 4:14 PM in response to joebiggs

Great, thanks Joe for the heads up. I've had my eye on the ebay ones, but many of the advertized drives are given nearly the same descriptions and I'm having a hard time trusting that the few with manufacturer specifications are really describing them correctly. I would only buy it from a seller with a 30day money back guarentee, and there are a few out there which do fit the bill, but I'm definitely hesitant. I'm pro-ebay for most things, but on the fence for buying a drive there. And the savings is pretty small in this case, but every $20 counts, for sure. Good to know your drive is good and the SMART is enabled. And will check out fry's. ~jeremy

Mar 12, 2008 7:47 PM in response to cornelius

Cornelius, Great prices! Love MacBuy. I can't find the difference between the first two: SEAST9160821A and SEAST9160821A-RK. I found Seagate's specs for the [Momentus® 5400.3 series|http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/laptops/momentus/momentus_5400 .3>, but no -RK in their list. OWC comes up with the first one for my machine, as you pointed me to. Any ideas? Thanks! jeremy

Mar 12, 2008 8:26 PM in response to joebiggs

OK, yes, that makes sense. Just found it on [Seagate's website|http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=b26addfc7816e010VgnVCM1 00000dd04090aRCRD&locale=en-US&reqPage=Model&modelReqTab=Features]

But looks like the specs are somewhat different on MacBuy [Compare Specs|http://macworld.pricegrabber.com/search compare.php/page_id=11?pageid=11&masterids%5B%5D=18116304&masterids%5B%5D=16244922] shows that the -RK is slightly smaller and has slightly slower sustained data transfer rates, but better reviews. Strange.

I would have thought that it was the same drive but packaged differently. From the PDF documentation, the RK is older (copyright 2006) than the non (copyright 2007), and the non-RK is not secified as a 5400.3-series drive, though maybe this means nothing.

Q ab. Hard Drive upgrade; PATA/SATA, S.M.A.R.T., HDD Controler

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